LBJ and Dick Russell discuss Panama: January 10, 1964

Senator Richard Russell urges an aggressive foreign policy to President Johnson in Panama, and supports the use of force if necessary in the Canal Zone.

Date: Jan 10, 1964
Participants: Lyndon Johnson, Richard Russell
Conversation Number: WH6401.11-1305

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(President Johnson): But I was cold and hard and tough as hell so far as-

(Richard Russell): That is exactly right.

(President Johnson): So far as this is concerned. Then I went back in and told our group here that I thought we had to remember that a week ago, two or three weeks ago, I had to tell them in Bolivia I'd send whatever aid I needed in there to... make them release one of our people there. A few days later- A few days earlier, they had someone else locked up some other place, and I was damned tired of attacking our flag and our embassy and our USIS every time somebody got a little emotional outburst down there, so they'd better watch it.

(Richard Russell): That's, uh, I'm so pleased. Now you... that's a great president. That's a man who'll go down in history.

(President Johnson): Now, I just wanted you to know that. And this group that's gone, and Martin'll be coming back tomorrow. But the old man finally said, well he's glad to be talking to a man that was taking some action. And I said, "Well, they'll be there." I think Cy Vance will be pretty tough, too.

(Richard Russell): Well, that fellow O'Meara down there is a pretty good man.

(President Johnson): Well, he's-

(Richard Russell): General O'Meara.

(President Johnson): He's had to order his people to start shooting again.

(Richard Russell): He has? Well, that's all right. They got to if they shoot at them. You can't expect our people to stand there and be killed and not fire back.

(President Johnson): Well, I mean it's a-

(Richard Russell): ... anywhere in the world.

(President Johnson): I'm not trying to unjustify it, or justify it. I'm just saying that it's hot as a firecracker.

(Richard Russell): I realize it is.

(President Johnson): All right.

(Richard Russell): I realize it is, but it's, it's, it's wholly a mental state as far as we're concerned, and a, and a national image so far as the United Nations is concerned. And I think we can protect both.

(President Johnson): I think that the position that ought to be on the Hill is we ought to be careful what we say, but, for God's sake, if we say anything, say we did right in acting promptly to send the ablest men we've got down there. Now they tell me that everybody in Latin America is scared of this fellow Mann. They highly regard him because he's a tough guy. He's not the regular...

(Richard Russell): Well, I hope he is. I think he's much tougher than the ones we've had. He has a velvet glove, but I hope he has his little iron fingers under it.

(President Johnson): I think he does. I think he does.

(Richard Russell): Well, I'm counting on that.