LBJ and Eisenhower on Bombing North Vietnam
In an effort to provide space for negotiations during the Vietnam War, Johnson ordered a cessation of air strikes against North Vietnam on December 25, 1965. After one month of failed attempts to use diplomacy to promote peace, President Johnson voiced his intentions to former President Eisenhower to proceed with offensive attacks against the North. In a telephone conversation recorded on January 25, 1966, Johnson insisted upon the impossibility of extending the bombing pause without progress in negotiations. Evoking the criticism of Senators Wayne Morse (D-OR) and J. William Fulbright (D-AR) regarding his policy decisions in Southeast Asia, the President turned to Eisenhower for counsel. The General responded by labeling Johnson's critics "overeducated Senators."
Date: Jan 25, 1966
Participants: Lyndon Johnson, Dwight Eisenhower
Conversation Number: WH6601-10-9533
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(President Johnson): Hello?
(Dwight D. Eisenhower): Hello?
(President Johnson): to attendant B-Y or B-Y-E?
(Eisenhower): Hello?
(President Johnson): Hello? Hello, General?
(Eisenhower): Mr. President?
(President Johnson): Yes, sir.
(Eisenhower): I had a long talk with Goodpaster yesterday.
(President Johnson): Yes.
(Eisenhower): And he-- there was one point he wanted me to bring up to you so that you'd know all about it and so that, if ever there's any embarrassment, you would know all about it and, therefore, make up your own decision.
(Eisenhower): There was a tragedy in his family about seven years ago. He had a hot tempered brother and got in a quarrel somewhere and his brother shot this guy and was sentenced to life in the penitentiary.
(Eisenhower): Now, he-- that item is something that he said that he always felt that he had to tell every figure that he ever served for so that they-- if they thought that there was any embarrassment to them by using him, why, that they do this with eyes open, that's all.
(President Johnson): Mmhmm.
(Eisenhower): And I told him, well, I knew all about it and, matter of fact, it occured to me while I was doing my term.
(President Johnson): Mmhm.
(Eisenhower): And that I said, well, hell, he wasn't responsible for his brother and besides that there was nothing really shameful about it. It was just a--
(President Johnson): Mmhm.
(Eisenhower): --a crazy thing, that's all.
(President Johnson): Mmhm.
(Eisenhower): But I told him that I would call you so that you would in effect know about that.
(President Johnson): Fine, General. I appreciate it very much. I am--I talked to some of the people over there. Some of them feel, the Secretaries, that if I brought him over here I might affect his chances. They consider he and General Westmoreland and about one other fella just the three best they have that they're considering. And I told them that I wanted him to move over here and they said, well, he'd had some service over here and they're a little bit worried about whether his own fellow officers were-- whether we'd considered him for something else-- whether his assignment right there isn't a little better from his standpoint. I told them I'd consider it and look into it and I want to explore it a little bit further and then I'd talk to him about it.
(Eisenhower): Mr. President. When a man gets to this place in his career, he's established this kind of record that the President of the United States wants to use him, I don't argue that he'd hurt. Now, there might be someone-- because his appointment no longer is the responsibility of a board of officers-- going from colonel to brigadier or something like that. This is the President's decision as to what's to be done with him.
(President Johnson): Yeah.
(Eisenhower): And my own feeling is that, having great respect for the responsibilities of the president, that he should have the very best man that he believes to be the very best man in whatever job you want. Now, I told Goodpaster, I said, now, this may not be exactly what you'd choose. You might rather want to go to command in Germany or unclear or something.
(President Johnson): Mmhmm.
(Eisenhower): But, he says, "whatever the President wants me to do, that's the law to me." That's all.
(President Johnson): That's a good point, thank you.
(Eisenhower): And I just-- these people that worry about these little things-- I just-- this happened to me so often during my career because I was passed from one general to another--
(President Johnson): Laughs
(Eisenhower): --and all the ritualistic people tell me I was ruined.
(Eisenhower): Well, I... A man gets to become very good and other people begin to worry what they should do with him. Well...
(President Johnson): continues laughing
(Eisenhower): You get this high, well, I think it's up to the President and that's that.
(President Johnson): Thank you so much, General. I appreciate your call, man. I'll get with him and--
(Eisenhower): I just-- he just felt so badly about this, you know?
(President Johnson): Oh, no, I wouldn't pay a bit of attention to it. It doesn't bother me one bit. I stated to tell the fellow one time about my brother. And he said, well, wait a minute, I've got two. Let me tell you about mine. So, I understand those things.
(Eisenhower): Laughs. Well, okay.
(President Johnson): Thank you, General. I hope you feel good.
(Eisenhower): I'm feeling pretty well. The doctor just went over this morning. He says I'm doing alright.
(President Johnson): We're going to have to make a decision to go ahead in the next few days and-- we got our friend Fulbright and some of them are doing a lot of snorting, and Morse-- but I'm not going to let them deter me. But I just wanted you to know that they are creating some problems and it looks like they're almost saying to Hanoi "if you fellas will just hang on a little bit longer, why, there may be some chance for you."
(Eisenhower): One time-- my own advice to Goodpaster, I don't know what the others thought but I felt that the behavior of these people after they've been given this kind of a chance deserves--no higher notice. Just go ahead and rank him.
(President Johnson): Well. I had a nice meeting with Dirksen this morning and I'm going to see Hickenlooper this afternoon. I tried to-- I've got our people out at Pearl-- Honolulu doing some planning now and I'll have my end of it about in shape about the time they are.
(Eisenhower): Alright, well, and I-- again, I'd pay no attention to the people, the--
(President Johnson): I understand.
(Eisenhower): --educated Senators--
(President Johnson): laughs I understand. I get great comfort and strength from your friendship and counsel, General.
(Eisenhower): Alright.
(President Johnson): Bye.
(Eisenhower): Thank you very much.
(President Johnson): Bye.