Secret White House Tapes

891-007a

About this recording

891-007a
  • President Richard M. Nixon
  • John B. Flynn
  • Brent G. Scowcroft
  • White House photographer
  • Manolo Sanchez
  • White House operator
April 9, 1973
Conversation No. 891-7

Date: April 9, 1973
Time: 5:03 pm - 6:21 pm
Location: Oval Office

The President met with Gen. John B. Flynn and Gen. Brent G. Scowcroft. The White House
photographer was present at the beginning of the meeting.

Introductions

Photographs

-Arrangements


President’s schedule

Photograph location

-Hands of state


Refreshments

-Coffee

-President’s habits


Manolo Sanchez entered at an unknown time after 5:03 pm.

Flynn
-Meeting with President in 1964

-National War College

-Manila, Philippines

-President’s private trip

-Hotel

-32-


NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM


Tape Subject Log

(rev. April-2011)

Conversation No. 891-7 (cont’d)


Sanchez left at an unknown time before 6:13 pm.

Maj. Gen. James D. (“Don”) Hughes

-Acquaintanceship

-Thailand

-13th Air Force [?]
-White House dinner for Prisoners of War [POWs]
-Role as President’s military aide
-National League of Families of American POWs and Missing in Action in
Southeast Asia

-Liason


White House dinner for POWs
-Guests

-Absence of Cabinet members, VIPs

-POW families

-President’s conversations with Capt. Jeremiah A. Denton, Jr. and Col. Robinson
Risner
-Scheduling
-POWs’ readjustment to US
-Arrangements

-Weather

-Tent

-Capacity

President’s trips to Philippines

-Bataan survivors

-Flynn meetings with past Presidents

-Dwight D. Eisenhower
-Meeting with Flynn

-President’s kindness

-Vietnam

-National War College trip


Sanchez entered at an unknown time after 5:03 pm.
-33-


NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM


Tape Subject Log

(rev. April-2011)

Conversation No. 891-7 (cont’d)

Spanish language
-Sanchez’s background
-Spain
-Transportation to United States
-Cuba
-Possible return

Sanchez left at an unknown time before 6:13 pm.

Vietnam War
-Flynn’s role as POW leader
-National morale
-National weariness
-Lyndon B. Johnson
-Antiwar riots, demonstrations
-[October Moratorium] [?]
-Cambodia
-Opponents of war
-Peaceniks
-Appearance
-Quakers
-Presidential travel in US
-1972 campaign
-Demonstrators
-Viciousness
-Young women
-Attitude
-Future of US
-Leader class
-Press
-Intellectuals
-Business lenders
-Congress
-Attitude of common people
-Support for President’s policies
-Vietnam settlement
-Violations
-34-

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

Tape Subject Log
(rev. April-2011)

Conversation No. 891-7 (cont’d)

-Laos

-Cambodia

-Infiltration

-South Vietnam
-Non-Communist government

-End of war

-Return of POWs

-POWs’ understanding of situation
-POWs’ political orientations
-Political pressures on President
-Return of POWs
-Honor
-US role in world affairs
-Peacemaker
-Importance
-Allies
-Enemies
-Chance of peace
-POWs
-Treatment
-Pride
-“Return with Honor”
-Commemorative plaque
-White House dinner for POWs
-Plaque presentation to President
-Arrangements
-Foreign policy briefing by President
-People’s Republic of China [PRC]

-Soviet Union

-Arms control

-Vietnam

-Attire

-Dinner

-Reception

-Receiving line
-POWs’ feelings for President
-President’s appreciation
-35-

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

Tape Subject Log
(rev. April-2011)

Conversation No. 891-7 (cont’d)

-POWs
-Effect on nation
-Antiwar movement
-Character

-Lack of faith in country

-“Peace at any price”

-Pride

-Caliber of servicemen

-Air Force

-December 1972 bombing

-B-52 raids

-POW recognition

-Sound

-Bomb loads

-Effects on North Vietnamese

-Fear

-POW reaction

-Cheering

-Threat of bayoneting

-Camp commander

-End of war

-Prior attacks

-Selectivity

-B-52s

-Selectivity

-Devastation

-Carpet bombing

-Opponents of President’s war policy
-Press reaction

-President’s insanity

-Carpet bombing

-Genocide

-Effects on North Vietnamese

-Attitude towards President

-Continued bombing

-President’s determination

-Henry Kissinger’s theory

-36-

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

Tape Subject Log
(rev. April-2011)

Conversation No. 891-7 (cont’d)

-North Vietnamese ignorance of Western attitudes
-1972 election victory
-Mining of Haiphong
-October 26 agreement
-December 1972 bombing
-Difficulty of decision
-Christmas
-Chicago Tribune
-Criticism of President
-Flynn’s promotion in 1971
-Rank
-Backpay
-Vietnam settlement
-North Vietnam’s violations

-Cambodia

-Infiltration

-Terms for aid to North Vietnam

-Congress

-Compliance with settlement

-Investment

-POW atrocities

-Public opposition

-Leverage

-Uneasy peace

-Survival of South Vietnam

-War’s goal

-Survival of Laos and Cambodia

-Uncertainty

-Thailand

-Treaty

-Obligation to protect

-Testing of US will

-Possible US military response

-Congress

-Ho chi Minh Trail

-Mon Tri

-Alexander M. Haig, Jr.’s mission to Southeast Asia

-37-

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

Tape Subject Log
(rev. April-2011)

Conversation No. 891-7 (cont’d)

-Cambodia, North Vietnam, South Vietnam
-US war goals
-Lack of public support
-Non-Communist government in South Vietnam
-International misunderstanding
-Flynn’s leadership
-Morale
-US objectives

-Achievement

-Flynn’s prediction for POW release

-May 8, 1972 decision

-1970 Cambodian operation

-Campus protests

-Kent State University shootings

-Antiwar demonstration

-Riots

-Effects of closing Sihanoukville

-Elimination of sanctuaries

-1971 Laos operation

-Historians’ misinterpretation

-South Vietnamese armed forces

-US air support

-Prevention of 1971 offensive by North Vietnam

-1972 North Vietnamese offensive
-1972 election
-1972 Moscow Summit
-Pressures for conciliation
-Compromised negotiating position
-Soviet tanks
-Hue
-Popular support for President’s reaction
-Press reaction
-December 1972 bombing
-Popular reaction
-President’s explanation
-Effect on negotiations
-Opposition to bombing
-38-

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

Tape Subject Log
(rev. April-2011)

Conversation No. 891-7 (cont’d)

-President as “madman”

-North Vietnam’s refusal to negotiate

-US Congress

-Weather

-B-52s

-Role of fighters

-Surface to air missiles [SAM]

-Effect of B-52s

-Fear among North Vietnamese

-Treatment of POWs

-Goals of North Vietnam
-Topples US leadership
-Compared to France
-Pierre Mendes-France

-1968 Tet Offensive

-1972 North Vietnamese offensive

-1972 election
-1972 North Vietnamese offensive
-Scale of attack
-US mining and bombing
-Attack across Demilitarized Zone (DMZ)
-Mistake

-Tanks

-Press reaction

-US goals
-Defense against Communism
-North Vietnam’s soldiers in South Vietnam
-Viet Cong

-North Vietnam’s support

-Socialist world’s support

-Denials

-US advantage

-Lyndon B. Johnson
-Motives
-Staff
-Mistakes
-Involvement in Vietnam
-39-

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

Tape Subject Log
(rev. April-2011)

Conversation No. 891-7 (cont’d)

-President’s Silent Majority speech
-November 3, 1969
-Defense of US role
-President’s public war goals
-Legitimacy of course
-President’s visits to Vietnam
-Gradual escalation
-Opinion of US military intervention
-Primitive Communism

-North Vietnam

-Bombing of North Vietnam

-Selective targeting

-Diplomatic purposes

-Military purposes

-1968 bombing halt
-Effects on Johnson’s successor
-Paris peace negotiations
-Charade

-1970 Cambodia operation

-May 8, 1972 decision

-Provocation
-North Vietnam’s attack across DMZ
-Effect on conduct of war
-December 1972 bombing
-Psychological effects
-POWs
-Effect on US policy

-President’s determination

-POW attitudes

-North Vietnamese attitudes

-Mistakes

-Lack of reasoned judgment

-President’s previous meetings
-Adm. James B. Stockdale
-Risner
-Denton
-North Vietnam’s desire for US aid
-40-

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

Tape Subject Log
(rev. April-2011)

Conversation No. 891-7 (cont’d)

-Compliance with Vietnam Settlement
-North Vietnam
-Shrewdness
-Possible future actions
-South Vietnam

-Strategy

-Economic aid

-Laos And Cambodia
-Soviet Union and PRC
-Support
-Soviet Union and PRC
-Role in world
-Leadership of Communist movement
-Competitors
-Relations with US

-Improvement

-US influence interests

-North Vietnam
-North Vietnam
-Violations of Vietnam Settlement
-Notification of Soviet Union and PRC
-Soviet Union
-Military aid to North Vietnam
-South Vietnam’s capabilities

-Manpower

-Tanks

-Airforce

-Navy

-Commitment

-Soviet message

-Trustworthiness

-President’s visit to Soviet Union and PRC
-Peking
-Moscow
-US foreign policy goals
-Competition between Soviet Union and PRC

-Communist leaders

-41-

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

Tape Subject Log
(rev. April-2011)

Conversation No. 891-7 (cont’d)

-US friendship

-Price

-Vietnam

-North Vietnam

-South Vietnam’s role

-Stability

-Military capability

-US reaction to invasion by North Vietnam

-Air strikes in South Vietnam

-External aid for North Vietnam

-South Vietnam’s government

-Autonomy

-US interests

-Possibility of collapse


US role in world
-Neo-isolationism in US
-American First

-World War II

-Fortress America

-Disarmament sentiment

-Unilateralism

-US defense capabilities

-Soviet Union

-World War I

-Possibility by Germany

-Benefits for Europe

-World War II

-Germany’s occupation of France

-Great Britain

-US assistance

-Japan

-Attack on Pearl Harbor

-Great Britain, France

-Role of great powers

-Germany

-Japan’s potential

-42-


NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM


Tape Subject Log

(rev. April-2011)

Conversation No. 891-7 (cont’d)

-Collapse as great powers

-Gen. Charles A. J. M. de Gaulle

-Withdrawal from Algeria

-Italy

-Germany

-Divided nation
-Willy Brandt
-Socialism
-Policy toward Eastern Bloc
-Anti-Americanism in West Germany
-US brokering of peace
-Leonid I. Brezhnev’s goals
-Georges J. R. Pompidou, Edward R. G. Heath, Brandt
-Division of Europe
-PRC’s relationship with Europe
-PRC’s relations with US and Soviet Union


******************************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 3

[National Security]

[Duration: 2 s ]



US-PRC RELATIONS


END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 3
******************************************************************************


US role in world

-US brokering of peace

-PRC’s relationship with US and Soviet Union

-Restraint

-Soviet Union’s relations with US

-US wealth

-43-

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

Tape Subject Log
(rev. April-2011)

Conversation No. 891-7 (cont’d)

-US deterrent
-Need for US strength
-Soviet Union
-Toughness
-History of expansionism
-Western Europe
-North Atlantic Treaty Organization [NATO]
-Dissolution
-Soviet Union’s role
-European Economic Community [EEC]
-Withdrawal of US forces
-US Congress
-Possible negotiations with Warsaw Pact
-Mutual force reduction
-Soviet Union’s goals
-Destruction of NATO
-Effects of détente

-Perceptions of Soviet threat

-NATO’s strength

-US diplomacy

-Arms reduction

-Trade

-President’s meetings with European leaders

-Brandt, Pompidou, Giulio Andriotti

-Purpose

-NATO strength

-Warsaw Pact

-Future
-Europe’s role
-US role
-US strength

-Military

-Leadership

-Balance to Communist threat

-Great Britain
-Resolve
-Heath
-44-

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

Tape Subject Log
(rev. April-2011)

Conversation No. 891-7 (cont’d)

-Economic problems
-Leadership
-World War I, World War II
-Germany
-Leadership
-France
-Need for US strength
-Europe’s lack of resolve
-Life in US
-Wealth
-Netherlands, Belgium, Denmark
-President’s visits
-National goals
-Youth
-Cheese

-Weakness

-Comparison with US

-Vietnam War
-Respect
-Uruguay
-Significance of citizenship
-South America
-Extension of Western democracy
-POWs’ concern
-Communists’ program
-US response
-Use of military

-Land reform

-Enhanced medical care

-Education

-US approach

-Freedom
-Brazil

-Emilio Garrastazu Medici

-Political system

-Economic health

-Land reform
-45-

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

Tape Subject Log
(rev. April-2011)

Conversation No. 891-7 (cont’d)

-Medici
-Land reform, education, health care
-Dehumanization
-Soviet Union, PRC
-Poland, Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Romania
-President’s visits
-Standard of living
-Freedom
-Negotiations with PRC and Soviet Union
-Economic relations with US
-Communist leaders’ responsiveness
-Communist ideology
-Cadre
-Russian people
-Strength, rigor
-Chinese people
-Sophistication
-Value of contact with Communist world
-Potential for change

-Avoidance of world destruction

-Gradualness

-Alternative of US isolation

-Anger

-Potential for violence

-Irrationality in leaders

-US presidents

-Josev Stalin

-Insanity

-Adolf Hitler

-Insanity

-US system

-Removal of unstable leaders

-Dialogue with Soviet Union

-Understanding

-Trade

-Economic strength of Soviet Union and PRC

-Soviet military expenditures

-46-

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

Tape Subject Log
(rev. April-2011)

Conversation No. 891-7 (cont’d)

-Consumer goods
-Soviet industrial productions

-Flynn’s thesis

-Cost

-Comparison with US

-Communist exposure to West

-Indoctrination

-Conditions in US

-Western Europe

-Spain

-Gen. Francisco Franco
-Poverty
-Madrid
-President’s welcome during visits
-Compared to Budapest
-Popular response to President’s visits to Communist nations
-Soviet Union and PRC
-Effects of US strategy in Vietnam

-Romania

-Poland

-Hungary

-President’s visit as private citizen
-Youth

-Czechoslovakia

-Eastern Europe

-Concerns for Soviet Union
-East Germany

-Organization

-Success of Communism

-Soviet Union

-Leningrad

-Kiev

-President’s future trip

-End of Vietnam War

-Crowds

-Russians’ attitude toward Americans

-World War II

-47-

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

Tape Subject Log
(rev. April-2011)

Conversation No. 891-7 (cont’d)

-Cooperation
-Brezhnev
-President’s trips to Soviet Union and PRC
-Improved communications
-POWs’ reaction
-Soviet and Chinese magazines for POWs
-Soviet
-Sophistication
-China
-Revolutionary tone
-Publication quality
-Life
-James Keogh

-United States Information Agency [USIA]

-Time

-Effectiveness of Communist propaganda

-Prison guards
-Discipline
-Insight into Communist world
-Efficacy of Communist propaganda
-Latin America

-Education

-Health care

-Land reform

-Literacy for indoctrination

-Communist doctors

-Quality

-Doctors during France’s rule in Vietnam

-South Vietnamese programs

-Schools

-Doctors

-Land reform

-Thieu
-Possible U.S. response in Latin America

-Radio

-Loudspeakers

-Villages in Vietnam
-48-


NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM


Tape Subject Log

(rev. April-2011)

Conversation No. 891-7 (cont’d)

-Television [TV]
-Youth
-Language classes
-Local governments’ role
-Ease

The President talked with the White House operator at an unknown time between 5:03 pm and
6:13 pm.

Request for call

[Conversation No. 891-7A]

[Begin telephone conversation]

[See Conversation No. 44-113]

[End telephone conversation]

Keogh’s schedule

-Travel

-Potential meeting with Flynn


Flynn’s schedule
-Joint chiefs of Staff [JCS]

The President talked with Keogh between 6:13 pm and 6:15 pm.

[Conversation No. 891-7B]

[Begin telephone conversation]

[See Conversation No. 44-114]

The President conferred with Flynn.

[Begin conferral]
-49-


NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM


Tape Subject Log
(rev. April-2011)

Conversation No. 891-7 (cont’d)


Flynn’s schedule

-Call to Keogh


[End conferral]

[End telephone conversation]

Keogh

-Reliability

-Anticommunism

-Time-Life


US role in world affairs
-Competition with Communists
-Ideas
-Military
-US strength
-Latin America
-US ingenuity

POWs’ experience

Flynn’s meeting with President
-Photograph

Rose Garden

-Plants


Red River Raiders
-Invitation to President
-Reunion
-Dinner in President’s honor

Flynn and Scowcroft left at 6:21 pm.
-50-


NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM


Tape Subject Log

(rev. April-2011)
Secret White House Tapes |

891-007a

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