About this recording
909–25
- President Richard M. Nixon
- Willy Brandt
- UNKNOWN
- Henry A. Kissinger
- William P. Rogers
- Walter Scheel
- Egon Bahr
May 2, 1973
Conversation No. 909-25
Date: May 2, 1973
Time: 11:04 am - 12:10 pm
Location: Oval Office
The President met with Willy Brandt.
Greetings
-Head of State dinner, May 1
Brandt’s schedule
-National Press Club speech
-Meeting with President
-Composition
-Foreign ministers
-Photo opportunity
-Walter Scheel, William P. Rogers, Henry A. Kissinger, and Egon Bahr
An unknown man entered at an unknown time after 11:04 am.
Scheel, Rogers, Kissinger, and Bahr
-Meeting with President and Brandt
-Composition
The unknown man left at an unknown time before 11:06 am.
The Carpenters
-President’s viewpoint
-Brandt’s opinion
East-West relations
-Detente
-Kissinger’s forthcoming trip to Moscow
-Soviet summit
Henry A. Kissinger entered at 11:06 am.
-31-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. October-2012)
Conversation No. 909-25 (cont’d)
Greetings
Agenda for meeting
-Energy
-Middle East
Brandt’s schedule
-Forthcoming National Press Club speech
Weather
Kissinger’s schedule
-Moscow and Copenhagen
Rogers, Scheel, and Bahr entered at 11:07 am.
Seating arrangements
-Press photographs
Brandt’s schedule
-National Press Club speech
-Weather
Members of the press and the White House photographer entered at 11:08 am.
Humor
-Translation
Press photographs
Head of State dinner
-Entertainment
-Youth
-California
Scheel [?]
-32-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. October-2012)
Conversation No. 909-25 (cont’d)
Young American [?]
Press photographs
-Fishing analogy
Violin [?]
Stock [?]
The press and the White House photographer left at 11:13 am.
Air travel
-Scandinavian Airlines
-Lufthansa
-Problem
-Delay
-Compared to government plans
-Brandt
-Helmut H. W. Schmidt
Agenda of meeting
-Middle East
-Foreign ministers’ recommendation
-Energy
-Common interests
President’s schedule
-Europe
-“Big Four,” North Atlantic Treaty Organization [NATO]
Middle East
East-West relations
-Berlin
-Bahr’s analysis
-Soviet bloc countries
-33-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. October-2012)
Conversation No. 909-25 (cont’d)
-German Democratic Republic [GDR]
-Four Power Agreement
-Soviet Union adherence
-Diplomatic and ceremonial recognition of West Germany,
West Berlin
-Soviet Union industrial exhibition
-Trade agreement
-US response
-Agreement with Soviet Union
-Trade
-Scheel’s letter to Leonid I. Brezhnev, May 1
-Cooperation Council
-Trade
-US role
-Common interests with West Germany
-Four Power Agreement framework
-Technical, cultural exchange
-“Berlin clause”
-Soviet Union adherence
-Compared with People’s Republic of China [PRC]
-European borders
-Conference on Security and Cooperation in Europe [CSCE] in Helsinki
-Compared to Moscow treaty [West Germany-Soviet Union treaty]
-Frontier question and non-use of force
-Roles of US, Great Britain, France
-West Germany-Soviet Union treaty
-Compared to US-Soviet Union Joint Communique
-Changes in territorial boundaries
-Soviet Union view
-Immutability
-Compared with West Germany, US view
-Non-use of force
-CSCE
-US support for West Germany
-Soviet Union objectives
-Unification
-Europe, Germany
-34-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. October-2012)
Conversation No. 909-25 (cont’d)
-Negotiations
-“Letter of the German question”
-Soviet Union adherence to agreements
-US-Europe relations
-West Berlin
-International air traffic
-Compared to East Berlin, GDR
-Agreements
-Consultations with US, Great Britain, France
-Impacts on visitors, West Berliners
-Questions on law, self-interest, security
-Passport control
-Roads
-Vehicular traffic
-Berlin agreements
-Soviet exhibit
-Brezhnev’s reaction, knowledge
United Nations [UN] membership
-West Germany and GDR
-Consequence of Berlin Agreement
-West Berlin
-Representation by West Germany
-Constitutional authority
-Procedures
-US, France, Great Britain
-Letter to Berlin Senat
-Notification of Soviet Union
-Bundestag
-Scheel’s letter to party leaders
-Scheel’s forthcoming speech
-Reading of treaties, application for UN membership
-Introduction of bill
-Ratification debate
-West Germany’s formal application to UN Security Council
-Timing
-General session compared to special session of General
-35-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. October-2012)
Conversation No. 909-25 (cont’d)
Assembly
-Scheel’s conversation with Adam Malik
-Colleague on UN Security Council
-Stanislaw Trepczynski
-UN General Assembly presidency
-Implications of membership
-Positions on Israel, Vietnam
-Speeches
-Role of ambassador
-Selection
-Attendance at sessions
-Compared with role of foreign minister
CSCE
-Soviet Union objective
-Establishment of multinational organization
-US, West German views
-Great Britain
-Michael M. Stewart’s idea
-Standing committee
-Council of Europe
-Domestic political impact
-Three-phase structure
-Maurice Schumann’s idea
-Stewart
-Foreign ministers meeting
-Monaco’s representation
-Speeches
-Duration
-Monaco’s representation
-Foreign minister
-Grace Patricia Kelly [Grace, Priness of Monaco]
-Commission
-Multilateral preparation
-Subcommittee discussion
-Phase IV
-Duration
-36-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. October-2012)
Conversation No. 909-25 (cont’d)
-Foreign ministers or Heads of State summit
-Dependence on second phase
-Commission progress
-Establishment of multinational organization
-Desirability
-US view
-Compared to UN
-West Germany’s membership
-Issues
-Rhodesia
-Armenia
-Burundi
-Soviet Union objective
-West Germany’s view
-UN
-Charter
-Existing regional organizations
-Economic Commission of Europe [ECE]
-Diplomatic correspondence
-Cables compared to letters
-Anecdote
-Otto von Bismarck
-Ambassador in Bangkok
-Communique
-Thailand, Khmer
tribes
Cuban cigars
-Customs official anecdote
-Disposal
Energy
-Kissinger’s viewpoint
-Cooperation
-Necessity
-West Germany
-Dependence on foreign oil
-37-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. October-2012)
Conversation No. 909-25 (cont’d)
-Contrasted with US
-Imports
-International companies
-US companies
-Energy sources
-Oil compared to coal and hydroelectric
-German Oil Group
-Market share
-Relations with oil-producing countries
-Iran
-Increasing energy needs
-Oil policies
-Coordination with US
-Coordination with European Economic Community [EEC]
-Foreign ministers meeting
-Timing
-Coordination with US, Japan
-Consumer competition
-US policy
-Oil production cooperatives [?]
-Investment in US
-Soviet Union
-Natural gas
-Liquefied natural gas [LNG]
-Transportation
-Cooperation with West Germany, EEC
-Existing commitments
-Possible consultations
-Natural gas
-US investment in Soviet Union
-Natural gas resources
-Investment capital
-Cost
-US companies
-Regulation
-Cost
-Comparison with US domestic price
-38-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. October-2012)
Conversation No. 909-25 (cont’d)
-Price supports
-Compared to West Germany
-US government subsidies
-Private investment
-Security concerns
-Development
-Embargo
-Supply estimate
-US supply from Algeria
-Private contract
-El Paso Gas Company
-Nigeria
-Oil companies
-US and Europe
-Antitrust laws
-Contracts with producers
-Exchange rates
-Bargaining
-Mohammed Reza Pahlavi [Shah of Iran]
-Malik Faisal ibn Abd al-Aziz al-Saud [King of Saudi Arabia]
-Mammer Qaddafi
-Unpredictability
-Venezuela
-Contract with Iran
-Pahlavi [Shah of Iran]
*****************************************************************
BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1
[National security]
[Duration: 55 s ]
BRANDT’S MEETING WITH PAHLAVI [SHAH OF IRAN]
-39-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. October-2012)
Conversation No. 909-25 (cont’d)
END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1
*****************************************************************
Energy
-Soviet Union supply compared to Iranian oil production
-Compared to caviar, basalt
Meeting agenda
-Break
Middle East
-Prospects for peace
-Possible effect on oil supply
-Brandt’s visit to Israel
-Scheel’s schedule
-Europe
-Brezhnev
-Near East
-Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon
-Michel Jobert [?]
-Morocco [?], Iran
-Brandt’s meeting with Golda Meir
-Peace negotiations
-Difficulties
-US role
-Significance
-Israel
-Bargaining position
-Meir’s viewpoint
-US support
-Soviet Union
-Soviet Union
-Soviet Union
-People’s Republic of China [PRC]
-Soviet Jews [?]
-40-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. October-2012)
Conversation No. 909-25 (cont’d)
An unknown person entered at an unknown time after 11:13 am.
Middle East
-Soviet Union
-Avoidance of confrontation
Brandt’s schedule
The unknown person left at an unknown time before 12:10 pm.
Middle East
-Peace negotiations
-Settlement
-Historical context
-Likelihood of success
-Timing
-Israel’s elections, October 1973
-Israel
-Strength
-President’s respect
-Rationality
-Possible conflict
-Urgency
-US position
-Need for rationality, compromise
-Israel
-US talks
-West Germany’s role
-Rogers’s talks with Bahr and Scheel
-Arabs
-Egypt and Israel talks
-Hussein ibn Talal [Hussein, King of Jordan]’s role
-41-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. October-2012)
Conversation No. 909-25 (cont’d)
*****************************************************************
BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 2
[National security]
[Duration: 5 s ]
JORDAN
END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 2
*****************************************************************
Middle East
-Peace negotiations
-Egypt
-Possible peace talks
-UN’s role
-Israel
-US role
-Relations with Israel
-Relations with Arab countries
-Moderator
-Arab acceptance
-Soviet Union’s support
-West Germany’s intervention
-Brezhnev’s viewpoint
-Egypt
-Interim agreement
-US viewpoint
-Anwar Sadat
-Israel
-Flexibility
-Compared with previous year
-Talks
-42-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. October-2012)
Conversation No. 909-25 (cont’d)
-Terms
-Sadat
-Territory
-Israeli withdrawal
-Israel
-Sadat
-Linkage
-Egypt, Arabs
-Israel
-UN Security Council Resolution 242
-Egypt
-US role
-Israel
-Imposed solution
-Compared to West Germany
-Scheel’s previous remarks, May 1
-Soviet Union’s role
-Israel
-Imposed settlement
-Egypt
-US role
-Stalemate
-Imposed settlement
-Israel
-Forthcoming elections
-Impact on negotiations
Brandt’s schedule
-National Press Club
The President et al. left at 12:10 pm.
-43-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. October-2012)
Conversation No. 909-26 (cont’d)
Date: May 2, 1973
Time: 11:04 am - 12:10 pm
Location: Oval Office
The President met with Willy Brandt.
Greetings
-Head of State dinner, May 1
Brandt’s schedule
-National Press Club speech
-Meeting with President
-Composition
-Foreign ministers
-Photo opportunity
-Walter Scheel, William P. Rogers, Henry A. Kissinger, and Egon Bahr
An unknown man entered at an unknown time after 11:04 am.
Scheel, Rogers, Kissinger, and Bahr
-Meeting with President and Brandt
-Composition
The unknown man left at an unknown time before 11:06 am.
The Carpenters
-President’s viewpoint
-Brandt’s opinion
East-West relations
-Detente
-Kissinger’s forthcoming trip to Moscow
-Soviet summit
Henry A. Kissinger entered at 11:06 am.
-31-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. October-2012)
Conversation No. 909-25 (cont’d)
Greetings
Agenda for meeting
-Energy
-Middle East
Brandt’s schedule
-Forthcoming National Press Club speech
Weather
Kissinger’s schedule
-Moscow and Copenhagen
Rogers, Scheel, and Bahr entered at 11:07 am.
Seating arrangements
-Press photographs
Brandt’s schedule
-National Press Club speech
-Weather
Members of the press and the White House photographer entered at 11:08 am.
Humor
-Translation
Press photographs
Head of State dinner
-Entertainment
-Youth
-California
Scheel [?]
-32-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. October-2012)
Conversation No. 909-25 (cont’d)
Young American [?]
Press photographs
-Fishing analogy
Violin [?]
Stock [?]
The press and the White House photographer left at 11:13 am.
Air travel
-Scandinavian Airlines
-Lufthansa
-Problem
-Delay
-Compared to government plans
-Brandt
-Helmut H. W. Schmidt
Agenda of meeting
-Middle East
-Foreign ministers’ recommendation
-Energy
-Common interests
President’s schedule
-Europe
-“Big Four,” North Atlantic Treaty Organization [NATO]
Middle East
East-West relations
-Berlin
-Bahr’s analysis
-Soviet bloc countries
-33-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. October-2012)
Conversation No. 909-25 (cont’d)
-German Democratic Republic [GDR]
-Four Power Agreement
-Soviet Union adherence
-Diplomatic and ceremonial recognition of West Germany,
West Berlin
-Soviet Union industrial exhibition
-Trade agreement
-US response
-Agreement with Soviet Union
-Trade
-Scheel’s letter to Leonid I. Brezhnev, May 1
-Cooperation Council
-Trade
-US role
-Common interests with West Germany
-Four Power Agreement framework
-Technical, cultural exchange
-“Berlin clause”
-Soviet Union adherence
-Compared with People’s Republic of China [PRC]
-European borders
-Conference on Security and Cooperation in Europe [CSCE] in Helsinki
-Compared to Moscow treaty [West Germany-Soviet Union treaty]
-Frontier question and non-use of force
-Roles of US, Great Britain, France
-West Germany-Soviet Union treaty
-Compared to US-Soviet Union Joint Communique
-Changes in territorial boundaries
-Soviet Union view
-Immutability
-Compared with West Germany, US view
-Non-use of force
-CSCE
-US support for West Germany
-Soviet Union objectives
-Unification
-Europe, Germany
-34-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. October-2012)
Conversation No. 909-25 (cont’d)
-Negotiations
-“Letter of the German question”
-Soviet Union adherence to agreements
-US-Europe relations
-West Berlin
-International air traffic
-Compared to East Berlin, GDR
-Agreements
-Consultations with US, Great Britain, France
-Impacts on visitors, West Berliners
-Questions on law, self-interest, security
-Passport control
-Roads
-Vehicular traffic
-Berlin agreements
-Soviet exhibit
-Brezhnev’s reaction, knowledge
United Nations [UN] membership
-West Germany and GDR
-Consequence of Berlin Agreement
-West Berlin
-Representation by West Germany
-Constitutional authority
-Procedures
-US, France, Great Britain
-Letter to Berlin Senat
-Notification of Soviet Union
-Bundestag
-Scheel’s letter to party leaders
-Scheel’s forthcoming speech
-Reading of treaties, application for UN membership
-Introduction of bill
-Ratification debate
-West Germany’s formal application to UN Security Council
-Timing
-General session compared to special session of General
-35-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. October-2012)
Conversation No. 909-25 (cont’d)
Assembly
-Scheel’s conversation with Adam Malik
-Colleague on UN Security Council
-Stanislaw Trepczynski
-UN General Assembly presidency
-Implications of membership
-Positions on Israel, Vietnam
-Speeches
-Role of ambassador
-Selection
-Attendance at sessions
-Compared with role of foreign minister
CSCE
-Soviet Union objective
-Establishment of multinational organization
-US, West German views
-Great Britain
-Michael M. Stewart’s idea
-Standing committee
-Council of Europe
-Domestic political impact
-Three-phase structure
-Maurice Schumann’s idea
-Stewart
-Foreign ministers meeting
-Monaco’s representation
-Speeches
-Duration
-Monaco’s representation
-Foreign minister
-Grace Patricia Kelly [Grace, Priness of Monaco]
-Commission
-Multilateral preparation
-Subcommittee discussion
-Phase IV
-Duration
-36-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. October-2012)
Conversation No. 909-25 (cont’d)
-Foreign ministers or Heads of State summit
-Dependence on second phase
-Commission progress
-Establishment of multinational organization
-Desirability
-US view
-Compared to UN
-West Germany’s membership
-Issues
-Rhodesia
-Armenia
-Burundi
-Soviet Union objective
-West Germany’s view
-UN
-Charter
-Existing regional organizations
-Economic Commission of Europe [ECE]
-Diplomatic correspondence
-Cables compared to letters
-Anecdote
-Otto von Bismarck
-Ambassador in Bangkok
-Communique
-Thailand, Khmer
tribes
Cuban cigars
-Customs official anecdote
-Disposal
Energy
-Kissinger’s viewpoint
-Cooperation
-Necessity
-West Germany
-Dependence on foreign oil
-37-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. October-2012)
Conversation No. 909-25 (cont’d)
-Contrasted with US
-Imports
-International companies
-US companies
-Energy sources
-Oil compared to coal and hydroelectric
-German Oil Group
-Market share
-Relations with oil-producing countries
-Iran
-Increasing energy needs
-Oil policies
-Coordination with US
-Coordination with European Economic Community [EEC]
-Foreign ministers meeting
-Timing
-Coordination with US, Japan
-Consumer competition
-US policy
-Oil production cooperatives [?]
-Investment in US
-Soviet Union
-Natural gas
-Liquefied natural gas [LNG]
-Transportation
-Cooperation with West Germany, EEC
-Existing commitments
-Possible consultations
-Natural gas
-US investment in Soviet Union
-Natural gas resources
-Investment capital
-Cost
-US companies
-Regulation
-Cost
-Comparison with US domestic price
-38-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. October-2012)
Conversation No. 909-25 (cont’d)
-Price supports
-Compared to West Germany
-US government subsidies
-Private investment
-Security concerns
-Development
-Embargo
-Supply estimate
-US supply from Algeria
-Private contract
-El Paso Gas Company
-Nigeria
-Oil companies
-US and Europe
-Antitrust laws
-Contracts with producers
-Exchange rates
-Bargaining
-Mohammed Reza Pahlavi [Shah of Iran]
-Malik Faisal ibn Abd al-Aziz al-Saud [King of Saudi Arabia]
-Mammer Qaddafi
-Unpredictability
-Venezuela
-Contract with Iran
-Pahlavi [Shah of Iran]
*****************************************************************
BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1
[National security]
[Duration: 55 s ]
BRANDT’S MEETING WITH PAHLAVI [SHAH OF IRAN]
-39-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. October-2012)
Conversation No. 909-25 (cont’d)
END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1
*****************************************************************
Energy
-Soviet Union supply compared to Iranian oil production
-Compared to caviar, basalt
Meeting agenda
-Break
Middle East
-Prospects for peace
-Possible effect on oil supply
-Brandt’s visit to Israel
-Scheel’s schedule
-Europe
-Brezhnev
-Near East
-Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon
-Michel Jobert [?]
-Morocco [?], Iran
-Brandt’s meeting with Golda Meir
-Peace negotiations
-Difficulties
-US role
-Significance
-Israel
-Bargaining position
-Meir’s viewpoint
-US support
-Soviet Union
-Soviet Union
-Soviet Union
-People’s Republic of China [PRC]
-Soviet Jews [?]
-40-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. October-2012)
Conversation No. 909-25 (cont’d)
An unknown person entered at an unknown time after 11:13 am.
Middle East
-Soviet Union
-Avoidance of confrontation
Brandt’s schedule
The unknown person left at an unknown time before 12:10 pm.
Middle East
-Peace negotiations
-Settlement
-Historical context
-Likelihood of success
-Timing
-Israel’s elections, October 1973
-Israel
-Strength
-President’s respect
-Rationality
-Possible conflict
-Urgency
-US position
-Need for rationality, compromise
-Israel
-US talks
-West Germany’s role
-Rogers’s talks with Bahr and Scheel
-Arabs
-Egypt and Israel talks
-Hussein ibn Talal [Hussein, King of Jordan]’s role
-41-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. October-2012)
Conversation No. 909-25 (cont’d)
*****************************************************************
BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 2
[National security]
[Duration: 5 s ]
JORDAN
END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 2
*****************************************************************
Middle East
-Peace negotiations
-Egypt
-Possible peace talks
-UN’s role
-Israel
-US role
-Relations with Israel
-Relations with Arab countries
-Moderator
-Arab acceptance
-Soviet Union’s support
-West Germany’s intervention
-Brezhnev’s viewpoint
-Egypt
-Interim agreement
-US viewpoint
-Anwar Sadat
-Israel
-Flexibility
-Compared with previous year
-Talks
-42-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. October-2012)
Conversation No. 909-25 (cont’d)
-Terms
-Sadat
-Territory
-Israeli withdrawal
-Israel
-Sadat
-Linkage
-Egypt, Arabs
-Israel
-UN Security Council Resolution 242
-Egypt
-US role
-Israel
-Imposed solution
-Compared to West Germany
-Scheel’s previous remarks, May 1
-Soviet Union’s role
-Israel
-Imposed settlement
-Egypt
-US role
-Stalemate
-Imposed settlement
-Israel
-Forthcoming elections
-Impact on negotiations
Brandt’s schedule
-National Press Club
The President et al. left at 12:10 pm.
-43-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. October-2012)
Conversation No. 909-26 (cont’d)