118–1

Conversation No. 118-1

Date: March 13, 1973
Time: Unknown before 8:39 am until unknown after 11:00 am
Location: Cabinet Room

James T. Lynn met with Joseph T. Sneed, Hugh Scott, Robert P. Griffin, John G. Tower, Norris
Cotton, Wallace F. Bennett, William E. Brock, III, Gerald R. Ford, Leslie C. Arends, John B.
Anderson, William J. (“Jack”) Edwards, John J. Rhodes, Barber B. Conable, Jr., Robert C.
(“Bob”) Wilson, David T. Martin, Samuel L. Devine, George H. W. Bush, Roy L. Ash, John D.
Ehrlichman, William E. Timmons, Kenneth R. Cole, Jr., Richard K. Cook, Thomas C.
Korologos, Ronald L. Ziegler, Donald E. Santarelli, and Henry E. Petersen; the White House
photographer was present at the beginning of the meeting

[General conversation/Unintelligible]

The President entered at 8:39 am

Cabinet table

Meetings with Republican congressional leadership
-Frequency
-Opportunities
-Recommendations
-Attendance of freshmen
-Bipartisan meetings
-Henry M. (“Scoop”) Jackson

Agenda for current meeting
-Crime

Proposals to Congress
-Federal-State relations
-Changes
-Costs

Federal-State relations
-Aid to localities
-Funds available
-Federal bureaucracy
-Resistance to changes
-Reasons
 2

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

Tape Subject Log
(rev. 10/08)



-Budget
-Elitism
-Divestiture of power
-Extent
-Department of Housing and Urban Development [HUD] and natural
resources
-Congress
-Decisionmaking to localities
-Local government
-Deficiencies
-Localities
-Special interests
-Influence
-Able leaders
-Concentration in Washington, DC
-Reasons
-Concentration of power
-The President’s meeting with mayors
-Decisions on running for office
-Roman S. Gribbs
-Decisionmaking power
-Concentration in Washington, DC
-Administration proposals
-Divestiture of power
-Goals
-Ability to determine priorities

Community development message
-State of the Union
-The President’s programs
-Diversity of types of communities
-Reversion of authority
-Better Communities Act
-Responsive Government Act
-Goals of acts
-Development of local capabilities
-Spending levels
-Housing proposals
-Better Communities Act
-Grant programs
-Changes
-Special revenue sharing
 3

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

Tape Subject Log
(rev. 10/08)



-Restrictions
-New formula for determining funds
-Preparation of bill
-Transition from grants program
-Plans
-Problems
-Housing
-Funds available
-Expenditure levels
-Maintenance of present levels
-Transitional problems
-Mayors’ assessments
-Main thrust
-Authority for mayors
-Speed of funds to localities
-Passage by Congress
-Joseph S. Montoya
-Comments on local officials
-Local power

Responsive Government Act
-Emphasis on local management
-Planning
-Budget analysts
-Enhanced productivity

Housing
-Starts
-Increase
-New procedures for obtaining funds
-Budget commitments
-Suspension of new subsidized housing
-The President’s record
-Increase in starts
-Public housing
-Problems
-New proposals

Apportionment formula
-Consultation with officials
-Options
-Problems
 4

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

Tape Subject Log
(rev. 10/08)



-Central cities
-Funds to states
-Proposals to the President

Better Communities Act
-Passage by Congress
-Failure to pass
-Consequences
-Alternative actions
-Special revenue sharing
-Advantages of act
-Appropriations
-Action by committees
-Present funds
-Present needs
-Amount
-Compared with past appropriations
-Level of expenditures
-Urban renewal programs
-Transition funds
-State governors
-Federal employees
-Impact
-Reduction
-HUD
-Reduction
-Number
-Special revenue sharing
-Budget items
-Commitments
-New funds
-Office of Economic Opportunity [OEO] programs
-Model cities
-Use of funds for other items
-Urban renewal
-Responsibility for failures
-Reversion to localities
-Role of federal government
-Source of information and management advice
-Funding
-Model cities
-Grand Rapids and Seattle
 5

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

Tape Subject Log
(rev. 10/08)



-Successes
-Philadelphia
-Local problems
-Local decisionmaking by local priorities

Education
-Federal subsidies
-Elite institutions
-Curtailment
-Concentration of talent
-Cutbacks
-Medical colleges
-State subsidies
-Federal subsidies
-Faculty members
-Franklin D. Roosevelt’s administration
-Opposition to the President
-Boon to small colleges
-Dwight D. Eisenhower’s administration
-Ivy League presidents
-Opposition to federal subsidies
-Massachusetts Institute of Technology [MIT]
-Defense contracts
-Opposition to national defense
-Corruption of faculty members
-Robert A. Taft, Jr.
-Opposition to federal aid
-Danger of control
-New approach to federal aid

Federal aid
-New Deal and Fair Deal
-Money to individuals
-Trickle down theory
-Programs
-Bureaucracy
-Economic assistance
-Money directly to local people
-Help for poor and working people
-Family assistance
-Income strategy
-OEO
 6

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

Tape Subject Log
(rev. 10/08)



-Problems
-Lyndon B. Johnson
-Survival of strongest agencies and programs
-Roosevelt’s programs
-New Deal
-Social Security
-Money for localities
-Amount for poor
-Reduction in bureaucracy
-OEO
-Reasons for complaints
-Bureaucracy
-Absorption of funds
-Cutbacks
-Restraints in budget
-Costs of inflation

Aid for localities
-Democratic governors and mayors
-Improvements in effectiveness
-Need for initiative
-Need to set priorities
-Support for the President’s program
-Democrats
-Nelson A. Rockefeller
-Crime prevention
-Federal leadership

Areas for federal leadership
-Death penalty
-Supreme Court
-State action
-Drug abuse prevention
-Death penalty
-Hannah Milhous Nixon and Almira Burdg Milhous
-Pacifist Quaker background
-Controversy
-Criminologists
-The President’s conversations with J. Edgar Hoover
-Kidnaping
-Charles A. Lindbergh law
-Pros and cons
 7

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

Tape Subject Log
(rev. 10/08)



-Drug abuse
-Penalties
-Debate over severity
-The President’s meeting with narcotics agents
-The President’s reaction
-Death of an agent
-President’s meeting with the Tummillo family
-Pushers
-Source of crime
-Penalties
-Federal and state efforts
-Rockefeller
-Rehabilitation
-Drug dealers and traffickers
-Harsh penalties
-Need for more severe penalties
-Crime
-Impact on citizenry
-Public support
-Death penalty
-Death of US ambassadors in Sudan
-Need for hard line

Law enforcement
-Petersen

Crime legislation
-Highlights of package of bills
-Names of bills
-Amount of funds
-Intent of bills
-Reform of criminal code
-Limitation of federal jurisdictions
-Criminal law
-Simplification of definitions
-Reform of penalties
-Death penalty
-Supreme Court guidelines
-Furman v. Georgia
-Legal reasoning
-Death penalty
-Supreme Court
 8

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

Tape Subject Log
(rev. 10/08)



-Alignment of opinions
-New legislation
-Procedures for imposition
-Heroin Trafficking Act
-Changes in pre-trial procedures
-Release of suspects
-Death penalty
-Press reports
-Supreme Court
-Ruling on penalty
-Application
-Problems with Furman v. Georgia ruling
-Federal reorganization
-Dual federalism
-Federal responsibilities in area of crime
-Death penalty statute
-Supreme Court guidelines
-Federal guidelines in statute
-Treason
-War crimes
-Criteria for application
-Murder on federal property
-Treason
-Espionage
-Hijacking
-Death occurs
-Kidnaping and assault on federal officers
-Occurrence of death
-Frank Tummillo’s death
-Standards for application
-Mitigating circumstances
-Hijacking
-Conspiracy
-Prime actor
-Narrow definition of law
-Hijacking
-Incentive not to kill
-Criteria for application
-Reaction of juries
-Reluctance
-Washington, DC
-Hijacking
 9

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

Tape Subject Log
(rev. 10/08)



-Penalties
-Latitude for negotiation
-Incentive to prevent harm
-Death penalty
-Killing of two Federal Bureau of Investigation [FBI] agents
-Refusal of jury to use death penalty
-Drug abuse
-Mandatory penalties
-Rockefeller’s views
-Administration’s position
-Death penalty
-Killing of federal officer
-Penalties
-Organized crime
-Penalties for narcotics traffic
-Responsibility for crime
-Conspiracy
-Responsibility for acts of crime
-Killings for hire
-Use of death penalty against instigator
-Criteria
-Standards and mitigating circumstances
-Juries
-Administration’s position
-Delays in courts
-Appeals process
-Overcrowding
-The President’s conversation with Warren E. Burger
-Reforms to end delays
-Federal courts
-State courts
-New York
-Drug cases in New York
-Easy penalties
-Overcrowding in courts
-Judge’s disposal of a case
-Burger
-Reforms in court
-Changes in statutes
-Congress
-Habeas corpus problem
-State courts
 10

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

Tape Subject Log
(rev. 10/08)



-Burger
-Tom Clark’s statements
-Law enforcement officials
-Support for administration
-Law and order
-Respect by public
-Clark
-Statements on law
-Racism
-Poor as victims of crime
-President’s position on crime
-Crime rates
-Richard G. Kleindienst
-Administration’s policies
-Decline in cities
-Concern for victims

Reform in criminal codes
-Judiciary committees
-Delays
-Pressure to work on crime bills
-Supreme Court
-Need for action
-Political benefits in urban areas
-Concern about crime
-Importance as issue
-Other issues
-Vietnam and the economy
-Crime as an issue
-Public concern
-Death of policemen and law enforcement agents
-Drug abuse
-Examples
-Crime in cities
-Decline in rate of increase
-Credit for administration
-Administration’s policies
-Sense of responsibility
-Law schools
-Subjects taught
-Death penalty
-Minorities
 11

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

Tape Subject Log
(rev. 10/08)



-Equation of law and order with racism
-Victimization of crime
-Law schools
-Support for reforms
-Need to speed up justice system

Criminal justice system
-Failures
-Overcrowding
-Federal judges
-Hearings in Senate Judiciary Committee
-Title 18
-John L. McClellan
-Bill for Congress
-Death penalty
-Federal appellate system revision
-President’s State of the Union message to Congress
-Crime
-Republican issue
-Prison reform
-Construction
-New techniques
-Butler, North Carolina prison
-Advances
-Costs
-New prisons
-Study
-Federal prisoners
-State prisons
-Federal funds
-Law Enforcement Assistance Administration [LEAA]
-Grants
-Revenue sharing
-State involvement
-Problems
-Reduction of costs
-US Code reforms
-Butler, North Carolina facilities
-New techniques
-Drug abuse bill
-Definitions
-Hard drugs
 12

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

Tape Subject Log
(rev. 10/08)



-Heroin and morphine
-Drug dealers and traffickers
-Mandatory sentences
-Life sentences
-Parole
-Restrictions
-Suspension of sentences
-Insanity defense
-New definitions
-Constitutional problems
-Responsibility of accused
-Tasks for court in determining
-Culpability
-Mental state of defendants
-Juries
-Procedures for dealing with criminally insane
-New regulations
-Separation of criminal trial from mental state analysis
-Reasons
-Intent
-Convictions
-Sentence options
-Acquittals
-Role of government
-Trial of Arthur H. Bremer
-Legal complexities
-Federal compared with State trials
-Hijacking cases

Administration’s programs
-Department of Justice
-Role of Congress
-Role of government
-Changes in funding
-Foreign policy issues
-Vietnam
-Relations with People’s Republic of China and Soviet Union
-Problems of complacency
-Need to rebuild on previous programs
-Administration’s goals
-Domestic programs
-Problems
 13

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

Tape Subject Log
(rev. 10/08)



-Spending levels
-Tax increases
-Spending levels
-Louis Harris’s poll
-Domestic program increases
-Public support for increases
-Opposition to tax increases
-Connection between increases and higher taxes
-President’s policies
-The President’s veto
-Veto of higher taxes
-Jobs, taxes, and prices
-Need for responsible fiscal policy
-Concern for middle income people
-Divestiture of power from federal government
-Congressional action
-Administration’s position
-Power to mayors and governors
-Effect on partisanship
-Public perceptions of administration
-Polls
-Inadequacies
-Image of unconcern
-Need for statements of support
-Congressional Republicans
-Issues
-Law enforcement
-Crime
-Foreign policy accomplishments
-Vietnam War
-Conclusion
-Soviet Union and China


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US foreign policy

[To listen to the segment (24s) declassified on 02/28/2002, please refer to RC# E-612.]

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 14

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

Tape Subject Log
(rev. 10/08)




-Problem of complacency
-The President’s talks with Captain Jeremiah P. Denton
-Concern for nation’s moral fiber
-New isolation
-United States’ role in world
-Respect by allies and enemies
-The People’s Republic of China
-Japan
-Europe


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US foreign policy

[To listen to the segment (32s) declassified on 02/28/2002, please refer to RC# E-612.]

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-Moral strength
-Denton, President’s role
-Role of Congress
-Domestic policies
-Defense
-President’s talk with former prisoners of war [POWs]
-Treatment
-Concern for future of United States

Future of United States
-Congress
-Concerns
-Watershed period in history
-Need for reflection


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US foreign policy

[To listen to the segment (44s) declassified on 02/28/2002, please refer to RC# E-612.]
 15

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

Tape Subject Log
(rev. 10/08)




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-Upcoming year
-Congressional leaders
-Speeches and votes
-Administration’s programs
-Denton
-Conversation with the President
-Solitary confinement
-Concern for future
-Role of United States
-Importance
-European nations
-Soviet Union and People’s Republic of China
-Responsibilities
-Role of government
-Programs
-Improvements
-Reorganization
-Relationship between domestic reorganization and international greatness
-Role of Congress

The President left at 11:00 am

[General conversation/Unintelligible]

Lynn, et al. left at an unknown time before 12:03 pm