656–10

Conversation No. 656-10

Date: January 26, 1972
Time: 10:08 am - 12:02 pm
Location: Oval Office

The President met with H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman and Henry A. Kissinger.

Congressional resolution
-Preparation of a letter
-Kissinger’s talk with Hugh Scott and Gerald R. Ford
-Scott’s and Ford’s view
-The President’s talk with Ford
-Scott
-Benefits
-Kissinger’s schedule
-Ford’s and Scott’s location
-Ronald L. Ziegler
-Scott

Kissinger briefing

Proposed terms of cease-fire
-Kissinger’s briefing
-Political benefits
-George S. McGovern’s comments concerning the President’s statement
about Nguyen Van Thieu and North Vietnam
-Possible revelation of North Vietnamese position
-Thieu overthrow
-Troop withdrawal
-Documentation
-As consequence of denial

Kissinger left at 10:11 am.

[The President talked with Paul J. Fannin between 10:11 am and 10:12 am.]

[Conversation No. 656-10A]

[See Conversation No. 19-93]
 7

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

Tape Subject Log
(rev. 10/06)
Conv. No. 656-10 (cont.)


[End of telephone conversation]

The President’s Vietnam peace proposal speech, January 25, 1972
-News coverage
-Inaccuracy of reporting
-Administration handling
-Assigning responsibility
-The President’s schedule
-Recent Congressional leaders meeting
-Kissinger
-Kissinger briefing to staff, January 25, 1972
-Tone
-Secret diplomacy
-First draft of speech
-Robert H. Finch’s reaction
-Politics
-John A. Scali
-State and Defense Department
-Vice President Spiro T. Agnew
-Congressional leaders meeting
-Staff meeting
-Thieu resignation
-Timing of announcement
-Peace proposal
-Public relations
-Kissinger

[The President talked with the White House operator at an unknown time between 10:12 am and
10:17 am and requested a call to William P. Rogers.]

[Conversation No. 656-10B]

[See Conversation No. 19-94]

[End of telephone conversation]

Budget meeting
-Agnew
-Complaints
-Political future
-Demeanor
 8

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

Tape Subject Log
(rev. 10/06)
Conv. No. 656-10 (cont.)


-Compared to John B. Connally
-Approach to problems

[The President talked with Rogers between 10:17 am and 10:18 am.]

[Conversation No. 656-10C]

[See Conversation No. 19-181]

[End of telephone conversation]

Agnew
-Demeanor

White House staff
-Charles W. Colson
-Scali
-William L. Safire
-Scali
-Kissinger’s call to Scali, Rogers, Connally
-The President’s schedule
-Congressional leaders meeting
-Agnew
-Demeanor
-Consultation
-Staff meeting
-Kissinger
-Handling
-Loyalty of White House staff
-Meeting with Haldeman
-Winston Lord
-Demeanor concerning Vietnam
-Troop withdrawal
-Negotiations
-Status
-Trips
-Kissinger’s comments
-Progress of talks
-Rogers
-Alexander M. Haig, Jr.
-Ellsworth F. Bunker
 9

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

Tape Subject Log
(rev. 10/06)
Conv. No. 656-10 (cont.)


-Creation of record
-Positive outlook
-Press conference
-Press conference
-Ziegler
-Necessity

The President’s Vietnam peace proposal speech
-News coverage
-Marvin L. Kalb
-Kissinger briefing
-Scali
-First draft
-Kissinger’s reaction
-Edits
-Safire
-Kalb
-Scali
-Dan Rather
-Possible letters
-Demand for apology
-Vietnam troop withdrawal
-Timing
-1972 election
-Kalb
-[Arnold] Eric Sevareid
-Public perception
-Prisoners of war [POWs]
-Troops
-Ceasefire
-Korea
-Paul N. (“Pete”) McCloskey, Jr.
-F. Bradford Morse
-Letter
-Colson
-Withdrawal from race
-Conditions
-Effect on credibility of Administration
-McCloskey’s comment
-Secret negotiations
-Administration action
 10

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

Tape Subject Log
(rev. 10/06)
Conv. No. 656-10 (cont.)


-Right wing’s reaction
-Speech ending
-Effect on attention to budget message
-Thrust of PR
-“Keep America United” theme
-Congressional leaders meeting
-Negotiations
-Clark MacGregor
-Delivery
-Lack of Vietnam speeches
-Complexity of subject
-Clarity
-Process
-Style
-Atmosphere
-Eye contact with camera
-Campaign benefit

The President’s schedule
-Signing of economic report
-Press interest
-Need for study
-Forthcoming meeting with Richard M. Scammon
-Congressional leaders meeting
-Press picture
-Maurice H. Stans’ announcement
-Peter G. Peterson
-Camp David
-Economic report signing
-Press interest
-Photographs
-Quadriad meeting
-Timing
-Connally
-Economic report
-Stans
-Dinner
-Peterson
-Press interest
-Swearing-in
-Earl L. Butz
 11

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

Tape Subject Log
(rev. 10/06)
Conv. No. 656-10 (cont.)


-Rogers C. B. Morton
-Camp David
-Friday schedule
-Dr. Rainer Barzel
-Dewitt Wallace dinner
-Weekend plans
-PR
-Preparation for People’s Republic of China [PRC] trip
-Briefing books
-Rogers and Kissinger

Stephen B. Bull entered at an unknown time after 10:18 am.

-Kissinger’s schedule
-Press briefing

Bull left at an unknown time before 10:42 am.

-PRC trip
-PR
-Camp David
-Preparations
-Return to Washington, DC
-McGovern and McCloskey
-Administration counterattack
-Congressional leaders
-Vietnam critics
-Media support

Bull entered at an unknown time after 10:18 am.

-Kissinger
-Briefing

Bull left at an unknown time before 10:42 am.

-Television messages and domestic affairs
-John D. Ehrlichman
-Environment
-Drugs
-Benefits
 12

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

Tape Subject Log
(rev. 10/06)
Conv. No. 656-10 (cont.)


-J. William Middendorf, II
-The President’s meeting with Prime Minister of Netherlands [Barend W.
Biesheuvel]
-Review
-Kissinger
-Rogers
-Attendance at meeting of the President and Biesheuvel
-Haig
-State Department
-Rogers

[The President talked with the White House operator at an unknown time between 10:18 am and
10:42 am and requested Haig.]

[Conversation No. 656-10D]

[See Conversation No. 19-95]

[End of telephone conversation]

[The President talked with Haig between 10:42 and 10:43 am.]

[Conversation No. 656-10E]

[See Conversation No. 19-96]

[End of telephone conversation]

The President’s schedule
-Middendorf

Kissinger entered at 10:44 am.

Kissinger schedule

Vietnam
-North Vietnamese terms
-McGovern
-Thieu government
-Overthrow
-Secret deal
 13

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

Tape Subject Log
(rev. 10/06)
Conv. No. 656-10 (cont.)


-Thieu
-Publication of terms
-Kissinger press conference
-Review of peace process
-Timetable
-Withdrawal
-Government
-Ceasefire
-Eight point plan
-US proposal
-Terms
-Unilateral withdrawal
-Surrender
-Deadline
-Return of POWs
-Overthrow of government
-South Vietnamese people
-US reaction
-Agnew
-Attitude
-The President’s Vietnam peace proposal speech
-Separation of military and political issues
-Clarity
-Demeanor
-Support for the President
-Kissinger’s comment to Bryce N. Harlow
-Congressional meeting
-Budget meeting
-Possible approach to the President or Kissinger
-Effects
-Patrick J. Buchanan
-Troop withdrawal for ceasefire and POWs or political issues
-January 25, 1972 meeting
-Agnew stance
-Ceasefire
-Effects
-North Vietnamese ceasefire terms
-Troop withdrawal
-Administration offer
-Troop withdrawal for POWs
-May 31, 1971 negotiations
 14

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

Tape Subject Log
(rev. 10/06)
Conv. No. 656-10 (cont.)


-Political proposal
-Indication of weakness
-Laos and Cambodia
-South Vietnam
-Bombing
-US aid to Thieu
-North Vietnamese thinking
-Michael J. Mansfield Amendment
-POWs
-Administration defense
-Kissinger
-Rogers
-Agnew
-Analogy to the President vis-à-vis Dwight D. Eisenhower
-Football analogy
-Support for US proposals
-Agnew
-Compared to Congress
-Congress
-Scott and Ford
-Meeting with Kissinger in Ziegler’s office
-Press conference
-Ziegler
-Preparation by Kissinger
-Kalb
-Possible interview with Kissinger

The President’s forthcoming trip to the PRC

Press conference
-Ziegler

Kissinger left at 10:57 am.

-Timing
-Ziegler

Public support for peace proposals
-Mail
-Quotes from Winston-Salem; Maryland; New York; Birmingham;
Philadelphia; Connecticut; Searsdale; Texas; Amherst; Columbia, South
 15

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

Tape Subject Log
(rev. 10/06)
Conv. No. 656-10 (cont.)


Carolina; Arlington, Texas; Wichita; La Grange Park, Illinois
-Frank L. Rizzo
-William A. Rago [?]
-Maureen Mullen [?] of Brooklyn
-Religious and minority groups
-Judge William Garbose of Massachusetts
-Mrs. Joseph Patrick Kennedy of Winnipeg
-Generation of peace, Adelphi [?], Illinois

Bull entered at an unknown time after 10:57 am.

Biesheuvel meeting
-Schedule
-Protocol
-Baron Rijnhard B. Van Lynden

Bull left at an unknown time before 11:02 am.

PRC trip
-Emil (“Bus”) Mosbacher, Jr.
-Herbert G. Klein
-Domestic matters
-Domestic Council
-The President’s forthcoming trip to the Soviet Union

Haldeman left at 11:02 am.

Biesheuvel, Middendorf, and Haig entered at 11:02 am; the White House photographer was
present at the beginning of the meeting.

Introductions
-Seating arrangements
-Photographs

Biesheuvel’s schedule
-Antilles and Surinam

[Photograph session]

An unknown person entered at an unknown time after 11:02 am.
 16

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

Tape Subject Log
(rev. 10/06)
Conv. No. 656-10 (cont.)


Refreshments

The unknown person left at an unknown time before 11:20 am.

Travel
-Indonesia
-India
-Indonesia
-The President’s visits

Colonial legacy
-Jakarta, Indonesia
-Education
-The president’s conversation with Lt. Gen. T.N.J. Suharto
-Antilles
-Retention of influence
-African and Caribbean nations
-Nassau, Bahamas
-Soviet Union
-British withdrawal
-Tourism
-Transition pace
-Indonesia
-Relations with the Netherlands
-Brink of war in early 1960’s
-West Iran (West New Guinea)
-Suharto
-Inflation
-Progress
-Possible visit by Biesheuvel
-Dutch professionals
-Suharto
-Sukarno
-Indonesian revolution
-State visit by Queen Juliana, 1971
-Students
-Suharto
-US position in Pacific area
-Edward R. G. Heath
-Singapore
-Georges J.R. Pompidou
 17

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

Tape Subject Log
(rev. 10/06)
Conv. No. 656-10 (cont.)


-West Germany
-Relations with Japan
-The Netherlands’ role in world
-European community
-Inter-government committee
-Financial aid to Indonesia
-Japan’s role in world
-Vietnam, Thailand, Cambodia
-Indonesia
-Population
-Geography
-Natural resources
-Java
-Population
-Jakarta
-Indonesia
The Netherlands relations with the Pacific area
-Surinam and Antilles
-Role
-Kingdom of the Netherlands
-Foreign policy and defense
-United Nations [UN]
-Small nations
-Antilles
-Geography
-English-speakers
-Venezuela
-Aruba
-Oil
-Defense
-Autonomy
-Preparation for independence
-African nations
-The President’s previous trip around the world in 1953
-Thelma C. (“Pat”) Nixon
-The president’s meeting with Winston Churchill in 1958
-Autonomy
-Great Britain’s experience

Common market
-National sovereignty
 18

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

Tape Subject Log
(rev. 10/06)
Conv. No. 656-10 (cont.)


-Great Britain
-France
-Economics
-International trade
-Political cooperation
-Use of economic power
-Effects
-North Atlantic Treaty Organization [NATO]

Power centers
-Brazil
-Africa
-Asia
-Indonesia
-US
-Europe
-Soviet Union
-People’s Republic of China [PRC]
-Japan
-Coexistence with PRC, Soviet Union
-Philosophical differences
-Europe, Japan, US
-Productivity
-Compared to Communists
-Monetary system, trade
-Security
-Japan
-Economic power
-Military
-World War II
-Reassurances by US, Europe
-Treaty commitment
-Nuclear deterrent
-PRC, Soviet Union

Europe
-NATO
-West Germany
-Forces
-Unilateral reduction
-Soviet Union and Warsaw pact
 19

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

Tape Subject Log
(rev. 10/06)
Conv. No. 656-10 (cont.)


-Sense of belonging
-West Germany
-Soviet Union
-East Germany
-Willy Brandt
-Kurt Kiesinger
-Great Britain
-Ostpolitik
-Unity
-Konrad Adenauer
-Alcide de Gasperi
-Robert Schumann
-Biesheuvel’s experience
-The Netherlands’ role
-World affairs

Common Market
-Statement
-US role
-Protectionism
-Economic prospects
-Britain
-Heath
-Pompidou
-Compared to previous one
-Rotterdam
-Perception of market
-Wars
-Manufacturing

Attendance of ambassador
-Protocol

Rotterdam
-Exports
-Compared to New York
-Common Market
-Trade
-West Germany

Van Lynden entered at 11:25 am.
 20

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

Tape Subject Log
(rev. 10/06)
Conv. No. 656-10 (cont.)



Greetings

World affairs
-US protectionist sentiment
-US intentions
-Outward look
-Reaction to possible European protectionism
-Japan
-Europe, US, Canada, Japan cooperation
-Security
-Competition
-Monetary matters
-Group of Ten
-Japan
-The President’s talks with Heath, Brandt, Pompidou [?]
-Group of Ten
-Beliefs
-Compared to western world
-Economic self-interest
-Political cooperation
-World War II
-[Emperor of Japan[ Hirohito
-Visit
-Contributions
-PRC
-Soviet Union
-Productivity
-World War II
-Tanker purchase by Dutch
-Oil companies
-Dutch-Shell
-US economic power
-The President’s trip preparation for trips to PRC and Soviet Union
-Meetings with European leaders
-Italy
-Italy
-Government
-Emilio Colombo
-French constitutionalism
-Latin countries
 21

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

Tape Subject Log
(rev. 10/06)
Conv. No. 656-10 (cont.)


-Italy, France, Spain
-French Constitution
-Fragmentation
-France
-Gen. Charles A.J.M. de Gaulle
-Political unity
-Communist Party
-De Gasperi
-Meeting with Biesheuvel
-Benefits
-NATO
-Netherlands as an ally
-Public opinion
-Joseph M.A.H. Luns
-Manlio Brosio

The President’s forthcoming trips to the PRC and Soviet Union
-Difference between trips
-Enmities
-US position vis-à-vis PRC and Soviet Union
-Soviet Union relations with PRC
-PRC
-Japan
-US, Soviet Union

PRC trip
-US intentions
-Contact
-Prospects of recognition
-Taiwan, Republic of China
-US treaty commitments
-Benefits
-Communication
-Reduction of chance of confrontation
-Korea
-Vietnam
-PRC nuclear power
-PRC power
-Population
-Japan
-US pacific responsibilities
 22

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

Tape Subject Log
(rev. 10/06)
Conv. No. 656-10 (cont.)


-Gulf in philosophies between US and PRC
-Need to bridge gap
-Nuclear weapons
-Nuclear weapons in PRC


**************************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 4
[National Security]
[Duration: 32s ]


PRC


END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 4

**************************************************************************


-Prospects
-Soviet reaction to PRC trip
-Paranoia
-Bilateralism
-PRC’s relationships
-Isolationism
-Soviet Union
-Hostile border
-US
-Korea
-Vietnam
-Japan
-India
-Rivalry with US, Soviet Union

Defense spending
-Biesheuvel’s conversation with William P. Rogers
-Effect on Europe
-The Netherlands
-Increase in 1972
 23

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

Tape Subject Log
(rev. 10/06)
Conv. No. 656-10 (cont.)


-NATO
-Michael J. Mansfield amendment
-Alternative uses
-Ghettoes

Soviet Union trip
-Substantive nature
-US relations with Soviet Union
-Relations
-Difference
-Trade
-Middle East
-Strategic Arms Limitation Talks [SALT]
-Europe
-Mutual and Balanced Force Reductions [MBFR]
-Arms limitation
-SALT
-Briefing of NATO countries
-US commitment to NATO
-Scope
-Familiarity
-Problems and benefits
-Pragmatism
-The President’s background
-European discussions
-European security conference
-Rogers
-Timing
-Bilateral discussions
-Benefits
-Views
-Italy

Bull entered at an unknown time after 11:25 am.

Rogers’s arrival

Bull left at an unknown time before 12:02 pm.

-Nicolae Ceausescu
-Soviet intentions
 24

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

Tape Subject Log
(rev. 10/06)
Conv. No. 656-10 (cont.)


-US view
-Need for security
-Germany
-NATO
-Defense budgets
-Soviet aims
-Germany
-Loosening of Europe’s ties with US
-MBFR
-Timing
-Linkage to European Security Conference
-US caution
-Agreement among allies
-Brosio
-Danger of linkage to European Security Conference
-Cultural component
-Agenda
-Andrei A. Gromyko
-Likelihood
-Eastern Europeans
-The President’s previous travles
-Poles, Romanians, Hungarians, Czechoslovakians
-Agenda
-Possible benefits
-Communication, trade, security
-Germany
-Italy
-Brandt
-Ostpolitik
-Rogers
-Gromyko
-MBFR
-Rogers
-Gromyko
-Search for formula
-Dutch domestic situation
-Multilateralism
-NATO
-Need for caution
-Timing
 25

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

Tape Subject Log
(rev. 10/06)
Conv. No. 656-10 (cont.)


Forthcoming European meeting on monetary matters
-Timing
-Possible location
-The Hague
-World Court
-Europe’s relationship with Communist nations, Japan
-Possible locations
-Rivalries
-London, Paris, Bonn, Rome
-Brussels, Luxembourg, Strasbourg
-The Hague
-Belgium

The President’s schedule
-Biesheuvel
-Schedule
-PRC and Soviet Union trips

State dinner, January 25, 1972
-Van Lynden
-Rogers
-The president’s Vietnam peace proposal speech, January 25, 1972
-Location
-Oval Office
-Preparation
-Drafts
-Idiom
-Michael J. Mansfield
-Rogers
-Rogers
-Talk with the President
-Biesheuvel’s interest in television
-Mass media impact on politics
-Dutch cabinet sessions
-Reporting
-Interviews

Dutch television
-State involvement
-Broadcasting companies
 26

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

Tape Subject Log
(rev. 10/06)
Conv. No. 656-10 (cont.)


Vietnam
-The President’s peace proposal plan
-Possible reaction in Europe
-Elections
-Thieu offer of resignation
-International oversight
-North Vietnamese reaction
-Possible North Vietnamese military action
-South Vietnam
-US aid
-North Vietnam
-Analogy to North Korea
-Peace proposal plan
-US troop withdrawal
-Political agreement
-US aid to South Vietnam
-Soviet and PRC aid to North Vietnam
-Political agreement

Biesheuvel’s schedule

Briefcase

The President, et al. left at 12:02 pm.