716–2

Conversation No.716-2

Date: May 1, 1972
Time: Unknown time after 4:11 pm and 5:29 pm
Location: Oval Office

The President met with William P. Rogers and Henry A. Kissinger. The recording began at an
unknown time while the conversation was in progress.

Soviet Union
-Letter
-Intentions
-Request for evaluations
-Georges J.R. Pompidou
-Edward R.G. Heath
-Willy Brandt
-Negotiations
-Ronald L. Ziegler
-President's Paper
-Gerard C. Smith
-Vladimir S. Semenov
-Leonid I. Brezhnev’s paper
-US position
-Statement
-Smith
-Instructions
-Vietnam issue
-Soviet interest
-Summit
-Risks
-Brandt

Vietnam
-Paris peace negotiations
-Kissinger’s forthcoming trip to Paris
-Air strikes
-Hanoi
-Haiphong
-Times
-Duration
-Intensity of strikes
 3

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

Tape Subject Log
(rev. Dec-01)
Conv. No. 716-2 (cont.)

-Gen. Creighton W. Abrams, Jr.
-B-52's
-Naval gunfire
-USS Newport News
-Tactical air strikes [TACAIR]
-Intensity
-Military targets
-Troop training areas
-Adm. Thomas H. Moorer
-Abrams
-Negotiations
-North Vietnam proposals
-Success
-Announcement
-Timing
-Negotiations
-Rogers's itinerary in Europe
-Soviet Summit
-Rogers's trip to Europe
-Statements on plans
-Wording
-North Vietnamese offensive
-US reactions
-Impact on Summit
-Rogers's statement to Europeans
-US stance
-Relation to Vietnam
-Conditions
-Soviet support for North Vietnam
-Abrams’s report
-Likelihood
-British support
-Pompidou
-Brandt
-Major issues
-Importance
-Compared with Vietnam
-US interests in Vietnam
-Brandt
-Heath
 4

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

Tape Subject Log
(rev. Dec-01)
Conv. No. 716-2 (cont.)

Strategic Arms Limitation Talks [SALT]
-Rogers's trip to Europe
-Smith
-President's paper
-Submarine launched ballistic missiles [SLBMs]
-Brezhnev
-Smith
-Soviet proposals
-US proposals
-Submarine
-Missiles
-SLBMs
-Compared with Soviet proposals
-National Security Decision Memorandum [NSDM]
-President's letter to Smith
-Submarines
-Soviet development
-US programs
-Multiple independently-targetable reentry vehicle [MIRV] issue
-US missiles
-Dwight D. Eisenhower Administration
-Robert S. McNamara
-Status of new missile
-Launching
-Payload
-Compared to SS-9

Soviet Summit
-Rogers's trip to Europe
-Trade
-European Security
-Mutual and Balanced Force Reduction [MBFR]
-Middle East issues

Ronald L. Ziegler entered at 4:23 pm.

-Communications
-Reports on Vietnam
-Return to US
-Duration of trip
 5

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

Tape Subject Log
(rev. Dec-01)
Conv. No. 716-2 (cont.)

Rogers and Kissinger left at 4:24 pm.

Rogers
-Request for paper

Soviet Union
-Ziegler's statement
-President's exchanges with Brezhnev
-Purpose
-Discussions with Smith and senior advisors
-Rogers, Melvin R. Laird, Richard H. Helms, Moorer, Kissinger
-Issues for resolution

Kissinger entered at 4:26 pm.

Soviet Union
-Smith
-Statement
-Brezhnev paper
-Rogers
-Submarines
-President's proposals
-President's statement
-SALT Agreement
-Likelihood of conclusion
-Improvement
-Smith
-Instructions
-Return to Helsinki
-Exchanges with Soviets
-Purpose
-Bases
-Agreement
-Likelihood
-Smith announcement
-Conclusion of statement
-Laird, Moorer, Helms
-SALT Agreement
-Smith proposals
-Rogers
-Ziegler's statement
 6

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

Tape Subject Log
(rev. Dec-01)
Conv. No. 716-2 (cont.)

-Deletions
-Smith
-Likelihood
-Conclusion
-Discussions
-Smith
-President's instructions
-Soviet reactions
-Brezhnev
-Conclusion
-Press questions
-Sensitivity of negotiations
-Conclusion
-Soviet Summit
-Ziegler's statement
-Rose Mary Woods
-Response to questions
-Alexander M. Haig, Jr.’s review

Ziegler left at 4:36 pm.

-Smith’s proposals
-Anatoliy F. Dobrynin
-Brezhnev

Stephen B. Bull entered at an unknown time after 4:36 pm.

Haig meeting with President

Bull left at an unknown time before 4:38 pm.

Soviet Union
-SALT
-Dobrynin
-Meeting with Kissinger
-President's statement
-Brezhnev proposals
-Rogers
-Laird, Helms and Moorer
-Support for Brezhnev proposals
-Rogers
 7

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

Tape Subject Log
(rev. Dec-01)
Conv. No. 716-2 (cont.)

-Position on proposals
-Intercontinental ballistic missiles [ICBMs]
-Equality

Haig entered at 4:38 pm.

-Submarines
-Soviet development
-Smith's proposal
-The President’s view
-Previous position
-National Security Council [NSC] meeting
-SLBMs
-Brezhnev proposals
-Rogers's judgment

Alexander P. Butterfield entered at 4:39 pm.

President's schedule
-Meeting with legislative leaders
-Day

Butterfield left at 4:40 pm.

Soviet Union
-SALT
-US goals
-Formulation
-Legislative support
-Problems
-Smith
-Instructions
-Preparation
-Proposals
-Orders to Smith
-NSDM
-Soviet strategy
-Smith’s strategy
-Brezhnev
-Problems
-US proposals
 8

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

Tape Subject Log
(rev. Dec-01)
Conv. No. 716-2 (cont.)

-Soviet position
-US proposals
-Laird, Helms, Moorer
-Submarines
-Rogers’s evaluation
-Wording of proposals
-Soviet proposals
-Soviet missiles
-Calculations
-Moorer and Laird
-Smith’s position
-Anti-ballistic missiles [ABMs]
-Radius
-Sites
-Smith’s proposals at cabinet meeting
-Kissinger’s view
-Haig’s view
-SLBMs
-US proposals
-Congressional funding
-Laird
-Undersea long-range missile system [ULMS]
-John C. Stennis
-Soviet missile numbers
-Submarines
-Kissinger’s position on inclusion in SALT
-Moorer, Laird, Adm. Elmo R. Zumwalt, Jr.
-A forthcoming meeting
-Kissinger's attendance
-Soviet proposals
-Smith’s position
-U. Alexis Johnson
-ABMs
-SLBMs
-Offensive missiles
-Rogers’s judgment
-Kissinger’s view
-Brezhnev
-Smith and Rogers
-Motives
-Kissinger’s view
 9

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

Tape Subject Log
(rev. Dec-01)
Conv. No. 716-2 (cont.)

-President's position
-Public perceptions
-Polls
-Soviet trip
-Bombing

Vietnam
-H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman
-News stories
-Ceasefire proposals
-Kissinger’s position compared with the President’s position
-Source
-State Department
-Washington Special Action Group [WSAG]
-Marvin L. Kalb
-Kissinger's position
-Negotiations
-President’s and Kissinger’s positions
-News stories
-Reasons
-Kissinger’s statement
-Cease-fire proposal
-Le Duc Tho
-North Vietnamese perceptions of President
-Kissinger’s statement to Dobrynin
-North Vietnamese offensive
-Kontum
-Quang Tri
-Capture
-Army of the Republic of Vietnam [ARVN] performance
-Commander
-Forces

Ronald L. Ziegler entered at 4:51 pm.

-US air strikes
-Hue
-Kontum
-ARVN performance

SALT
 10

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

Tape Subject Log
(rev. Dec-01)
Conv. No. 716-2 (cont.)

-Agreement
-Confidential exchanges
-Likelihood
-Increase
-Ziegler’s statement
-President’s meeting with Smith
-President’s instructions
-Return to Helsinki
-President’s instructions
-Soviet response
-Brezhnev

Ziegler left at 4:56 pm.

Vietnam
-Report
-Laird
-North Vietnamese offensive
-ARVN performance
-Abrams
-Reports on I Corps
-Provincial capitals
-Kontum, An Loc
-Counter offensive
-I Corps
-Hue
-Goals
-Kontum
-ARVN
-Strength
-Strategy
-Provincial towns
-Losses
-Kontum
-23rd division
-22nd division
-Hue
-Value
-Strategy
-Central Highlands
-Haig’s view
 11

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

Tape Subject Log
(rev. Dec-01)
Conv. No. 716-2 (cont.)

-Kontum
-Hue
-Targets
-Air power
-Effectiveness
-Air power
-Abrams
-ARVN
-Quang Tri
-Division commander
-Control
-Performance
-Possible press story
-Meeting with Haig
-Performance
-Counterattack
-Haig’s view
-An Loc
-Performance
-Tai Nien [?]
-Performance
-Air power
-Dependence
-Artillery
-Tanks and artillery
-Comparison with Soviet
-Soviet weapons
-Systems
-Introduction
-Missiles
-ARVN
-Chances of success
-Haig’s judgment
-North Vietnamese resolve
-Haig’s view
-Kissinger’s previous prediction
-Kissinger’s view
-Dien Bien Phu comparison
-Air power
-III corps
-Tanks
 12

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

Tape Subject Log
(rev. Dec-01)
Conv. No. 716-2 (cont.)

-Level of activity

Ziegler entered at 5:04 pm.

SALT
-Ziegler's statement
-Listing of advisors
-Talks with Brezhnev
-Subjects of discussion
-Questions
-The President’s May 1971 statement
-ABM
-Offensive weapons
-SLBMs
-Statements
-Wording
-SLBMs
-Weapons systems
-SLBMs
-Discussion
-Leaks
-Breakthrough
-ABMs
-Discussions with press
-Smith
-President’s instructions
-Scope of talks

Soviet summit
-Plans
-Questions from press
-Agreement
-Conclusion
-Conditions
-Progress in negotiations
-ABM questions
-Exchanges between President and Brezhnev
-Number
-Press interest

Vietnam
 13

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

Tape Subject Log
(rev. Dec-01)
Conv. No. 716-2 (cont.)

-North Vietnamese offensive
-ARVN morale
-Negotiations
-Plenary sessions
-Progress
-Continuation
-Quang Tri
-Loss
-Kissinger
-Ziegler’s comments
-ARVN
-The President’s view
-North Vietnamese weapons
-Sophistication
-Soviet Union
-US air support
-Ziegler’s statement
-Losses
-North Vietnamese losses
-Extent
-Attacks on North Vietnam by US
-Military targets
-Commentary
-Losses
-Abrams

Ziegler left at 5:06 pm.

-ARVN performance
-I Corps
-Strength
-Determination
-Weaponry
-US underestimations
-Quang Tri
-Shelling
-Number of rounds
-Ammunition dump
-Destruction
-Impact on morale
-Naval gunfire
 14

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

Tape Subject Log
(rev. Dec-01)
Conv. No. 716-2 (cont.)

-Intensity
-Attrition
-Number of troops
-Verification
-US response
-Bombing of North Vietnam
-Extent of destruction
-Blockade
-Haiphong
-Soviet concerns
-Soviet activities
-Concerns over US actions
-Le Duc Tho
-Soviets
-Letter from Brezhnev
-Settlement
-Negotiations
-Le Duc Tho
-North Vietnamese offensive
-Hanoi
-Haiphong
-Bombing
-US public opinion
-Air strikes
-Intensity
-B-52s
-Number
-TACAIR strikes
-Level
-Damage
-Comparison with Lyndon B. Johnson
-Bombing halt
-Naval response
-Positioning of ships
-USS Newport News
-Zumwalt
-Gunfire support
-Shore batteries
-Blockade
-Relationship to president's trip to Soviet Union
-Conditions
 15

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

Tape Subject Log
(rev. Dec-01)
Conv. No. 716-2 (cont.)

-President’s strategy
-Military response
-Soviet summit
-Domestic and congressional concerns
-Air strikes
-Scheduling
-Plenary sessions
-Negotiations
-Outcome
-Private meeting
-Plenary session
-Possible walkout by William J. Porter
-Cancellation
-North Vietnamese actions
-Cancellation
-News report
-Negotiations
-Plenary session
-Porter’s reaction
-Quang Tri, Kontum attacks
-Possible walkout
-Resumption
-Conditions
-Kontum
-Possible loss
-Timing
-Hue
-Shelling
-Fire Base Bastongne
-130mm artillery
-B-52s
-Artillery of North Vietnamese
-Destruction
-TACAIR
-Air Force actions
-The President’s view
-Gen. John W. Vogt, Jr.

Kissinger and Haig left at 5:29 pm.
 16

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

Tape Subject Log
(rev. Dec-01)
Conv. No. 716-2 (cont.)