857–5

Conversation No. 857-5

Date: February 15, 1973
Time: 11:12 am - 12:02 pm
Location: Oval Office

The President met with Gen. Andrew Goodpaster and Gen. Brent Scowcroft. Members of the
press were present at the beginning of the meeting.

Prisoners of War [POWs]

Vietnam settlement
-President's accomplishment

Pentagon visit
-Goodpaster's attendance
-North Atlantic Treaty Organization [NATO]

The President talked with the White House operator at an unknown time after 11:12 am.

Request for Elliot L. Richardson or Adm. Thomas H. Moorer
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NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

Tape Subject Log
(rev. Oct.-09)
Conversation No. 857-5 (cont’d)




Pentagon visit
-Goodpaster’s attendance
-NATO
-Joint Chiefs of Staff [JCS]

[Photograph session]

Military
-Year of Europe
-South and Southeast Asia
-Latin America

Europe
-Importance
-Economics and military
-Mutual and Balanced Force Reductions [MBFR]
-Agenda
-Conference on Security ad Cooperation in Europe [CSCE]
-Military implications

Scowcroft talked with Moorer between 11:14 am and 11:15 am. The President and
Goodpaster can be heard in the background.

Meeting with the President and Goodpaster

[End of telephone conversation]

Meeting with Joint Chiefs of Staff [JCS]
-Goodpaster’s attendance
-Defense Secretary
-Service Secretaries
-Report to Joint Chiefs
-Return of POWs
-Withdrawal
-Cease-fire implementation

Relations with Europe
-Troop levels in NATO
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NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

Tape Subject Log
(rev. Oct.-09)
Conversation No. 857-5 (cont’d)




-CSCE
-Discussions
-Edward R. G. Heath
-Economic considerations
-Trade
-Security arrangements
-Vietnam
-Vietnam settlement
-Demonstration of US will and credibility
-US allies
-Japan, Thailand
-Mutual security
-Vietnam
-Peace with honor
-US goals
-May 8, 1972 speech
-Consequences of failure
-Allies’ loss of confidence
-Encouragement of aggression
-Europeans’ confidence
-US commitment to NATO
-Strengthening
-President's statements about NATO
-Negotiations
-Position of strength and stability

Members of the press left at an unknown time before 12:02 pm.

President’s statement
-European confidence

European negotiations with the Union of Soviet Socialists Republics [USSR]
-President’s commitment
-European confidence in Supreme Allied Commander, Europe [SACEUR]
-Dwight D. Eisenhower

December 1972 bombing
-European reaction
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NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

Tape Subject Log
(rev. Oct.-09)
Conversation No. 857-5 (cont’d)




-Great Britain
-Greece
-Turkey
-European communist
-Helmet H.W. Schmidt
-Australia
-New Zealand
-Japan
-Heath’s support
-Schmidt
-Socialists

President’s policies on NATO
-European interests
-Friendship
-US in Vietnam
-Impact of early withdrawal
-Thailand, Indonesia, Philippines
-Aggression
-USSR, People’s Republic of China [PRC]
-US allies’ support
-Canada

Canada
-Relations with US
-United Nations [UN] vote on Taiwan

US allies
-Reaction to US policies
-Criticism of December 1972 bombing
-Canada
-Pragmatic relationship
-UN vote on Taiwan
-Leftists, press, youth
-Heath
-Luncheon with Goodpaster
-Relations with US
-Behavior during December 1972 bombing
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NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

Tape Subject Log
(rev. Oct.-09)
Conversation No. 857-5 (cont’d)




NATO
-Nixon Doctrine
-Application
-Mutual interests
-National Security Council [NSC] study
-Importance of Europe
-MBFR
-CSCE
-Negotiations with USSR
-Gen. Lauris Norstad
-Status of forces
-Stability
-Problems
-Psychological impact
-Arbitrary deadlines

USSR
-Proposals
-Common sea lanes
-Principle of party
-Mixed packages
-Adjustments
-Détente
-US view
-Negotiations
-Phases
-Results

MBFR
-Staff views
-Goals

Military Unity in Europe
-Rationalization of forces
-European commitment
-Economies
-Flexibility
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NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

Tape Subject Log
(rev. Oct.-09)
Conversation No. 857-5 (cont’d)




-Unity
-US cutbacks

New Technologies
-Smart bombs
-Experience in Vietnam
-Anti-tank technology
-Helicopter
-Application

Force Restructuring
-Budgetary cuts
-Modernization
-New technology

Future
-Activate
-Relations with NATO and USSR
-NATO
-Consultation
-Sensitivities
-Effectiveness
-President’s foreign policy
-Basis
-Personal relationship
-USSR
-PRC
-US interests
-Need for US-European relationship
-State visits
-Georges J. R. Pompidou, Willy Brandt

US-German relations
-December 1972 bombing
-Germany’s regrets
-Germany’s domestic politics
-Leftists
-Defense minister
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NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

Tape Subject Log
(rev. Oct.-09)
Conversation No. 857-5 (cont’d)




-Former labor leader
-Views regarding US
-Schmidt
-Political coalition

NATO
-Denmark
-Cutbacks
-US opposition
-Belgium
-Cut in term of service for conscripts
-Germany
-Restructuring of forces
-German military’s opposition

Congress
-Willingness to cut back
-European criticism
-Effect on Senate
-Isolationism
-European cut-backs
-Japan’s view of cut-backs
-Congressional response
-Denmark’s proposals
-Effect

Tactical nuclear policy
-Goodpaster’s opinion of Richardson
-Need for consensus on value and limitations
-Unresolved questions
-Studies
-Modernization
-New technology

France
-US relations
-Gen. Charles A. J. M. De Gaulle
-Areas of cooperation
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NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

Tape Subject Log
(rev. Oct.-09)
Conversation No. 857-5 (cont’d)




-Michael Debre
-Role in US relations
-French military
-Reaction to NATO
-Cooperation with Goodpaster
-Improvements in relations

Spain
-Horatio Rivero, Jr.
-Capabilities
-US-Spain relations
-Richardson’s support
-Joint committee
-Lopez-Rabule [?], Rivero, and Gen. Diaz-Allegria [?],
Virginal [?]
-Military aid agreement
-Foreign exchange
-Surplus
-Political interests
-Gen. Francisco Franco
-Preparations

Goodpaster’s meeting with Donald H. Rumsfled
-Military matters

Cooperation with allies
-National interests

David M. Kennedy
-Meeting with Goodpaster
-Cooperation

Rumsfeld
-Experience as NATO ambassador
-Future in politics
-Public appearances
-Style
-Intelligence
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NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

Tape Subject Log
(rev. Oct.-09)
Conversation No. 857-5 (cont’d)




Mamie G. D. Eisenhower
-Appearance
-Strength
-Goodpaster's visit
-Augusta, Georgia
-Gettysburg, Pennsylvania
-Appearances in public
-Public responses

Henry Fairlie's book
-The Kennedy Promise
-US foreign policy
-President’s conversation with Ronald W. Reagan
-John F. Kennedy

An unknown person entered and left at an unknown time between 11:12 am and 12:02
pm.

-View on Cuba
-Kennedy’s foreign policy
-Criticism
-Assessment of Dwight D. Eisenhower’s foreign policy

President’s foreign policy
-Contrast with Kennedy’s foreign policy
-Crisis-orientation
-Mistakes

Cuban Missile Crisis
-Kennedy’s handling
-Risks
-Military advantage
-Fidel Castro
-Stable position
-Soviet missiles in Cuba
-Eisenhower’s responses
-Cienfuegos
 -37-

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

Tape Subject Log
(rev. Oct.-09)
Conversation No. 857-5 (cont’d)




-Bay of Pigs
-Reasons for failure
Guatemala
-Eisenhower’s action
-Middle East Crisis of 1956
-John Foster Dulles

Vietnam settlement
-POWs
-Heroes
-Casualties
-Congressional Medal of Honor
-Press
-Praise for draft dodgers and deserters
-Calls for amnesty
-POWs
-Heroes to nation
-National morale
-Critics of President
-Campus protests
-Amnesty

An unknown person entered at an unknown time after 11:12 am.

Fairlie’s book
-Value
-Goodpaster
-Rumsfeld

The unknown person left at an unknown time before 12:02 pm.

-Analysis of American public relations
-American presidency

POWs
-Support for bombing
-Answer to critics
-Moorer’s comment
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NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

Tape Subject Log
(rev. Oct.-09)
Conversation No. 857-5 (cont’d)




-December 26, 1972 bombing
-President’s Christmas vacation
-Florida
-Bombing halt
-Number of B-52s
-Effects
-Attitudes of captors
-Effects of POWs

South Vietnam
-Chance for survival

Bombing of North Vietnam
-POWs’ responses
-Press relations
-Television [TV]
-Public statement
-Reasons
-Impact on North Vietnam
-Private negotiations
-Public support
-Press criticism
-Bombing in World War II
-US infantry
-German cities
-Civilian areas
-Compared to Normandy landing
-Eisenhower
-Seine river bridges
-Gen. Curtis Lemay
-Impact
-Moorer’s view
-Duration
-White House staff
-Concern over criticism
-Press
-Criticism
-Churches
 -39-

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

Tape Subject Log
(rev. Oct.-09)
Conversation No. 857-5 (cont’d)




-Nitpicking

Flag flying at full staff
-Claudia A. (Taylor) (“Lady Bird”) Johnson
-Patriotism

Mansfield-McGovern amendment
-Bugou
-POWs in exchange for withdrawal
-Loss of pride

Stephen B. Bull entered at an unknown time after 11:12 am.

Arrival of J[ames] Curtis Counts

Bull left at an unknown time before 12:02 pm.

Vietnam settlement
-Success
-Impact on US people
-Southeast Asia
-Self-reliance
-POWs
-Impact of return
-Statement by Denton

Goodpaster and Scowcroft left at 12:02 pm.