870-005a

Conversation No. 870-5

Date: March 6, 1973
Time: Unknown between 4:46 pm and 6:00 pm
Location: Oval Office

The President met with Stephen B. Bull.

President's meeting with Ronald L. Ziegler

William P. Rogers's briefing
-Statement on terrorism
-Paris meeting
-Andrei A. Gromyko
-People's Republic of China [PRC] foreign minister
-Statement on president's policy
-Statement on Vietnam settlement
-Success of President's policies
-POWs
-Terrorism
-Death penalty
-Compared with incarceration
-Hijacking
-Ransom
-Incarcerated terrorists
-Haiti incident
-Ambassador
-Press conference questions and answers [Q&A]
-Questions for President
 -18-

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

Tape Subject Log
(rev. Mar.-09)
Conversation No. 870-5 (cont’d)



Ziegler entered at 4:50 pm.

Press conference
-Foreign policy
-Subject of discussion
-Rogers
-Henry A. Kissinger
-Rogers
-Performance
-Paris
-Anecdotes

President's meeting at State Department
-Wives of slain diplomats
-Rogers
-[First name unknown] Owen
-[First name unknown] Olson
-Cleo A. Noel, Jr., George C. Moore
-Appropriateness of remarks
-Compassion
-President's policy on terrorism
-Support from other governments
-Compromise
-Applause for President's remarks
-Foreign service officers [FSOs]
-Press reception
-Television [TV]

Bull left at an unknown time before 4:53 pm,

President's meeting with Earl L. Butz and others

Earl L. Butz, James T. Lynn, Caspar W. (“Cap”) Weinberger and John D. Ehrlichman entered at
4:53 pm; the White House photographer was present at the beginning of the meeting.

Budget
-Testimony before Congress
-Need for \"secondary advocacy\"
 -19-

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

Tape Subject Log
(rev. Mar.-09)
Conversation No. 870-5 (cont’d)



-Domestic departments

Rural Electrification Administration [REAP] legislation settlement
-Butz’s report
-Votes in Congress
-Postponement
-Ancher Nelsen, John A. (“Jack”) Knebel
-Chance of victory

Roy L. Ash
-Attendance at meeting
-Ziegler

Ronald L. Ziegler left at an unknown time before 4:58 pm.

Budget
-Ash

Ziegler entered at an unknown time after 4:53 pm.

Congressional relations
-Farm bill
-Senate bill
-Reduction in spending
-Budget cuts
-Income supplements
-Hearings in House
-W[illiam] R. Poage
-Senate version’s passage
-Poage
-REA
-Compromise
-Farm bill
-REA funding
-Criteria
-Cuts
-Need to save face
-Compromise
 -20-

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

Tape Subject Log
(rev. Mar.-09)
Conversation No. 870-5 (cont’d)




Roy L. Ash entered at 4:58 pm

REA
-Review of status
-Revolving fund
-Interest rates
-Veto
-Precedent
-Importance to other vetoes
-REA program
-Public relations [PR]
-Appropriations
-Abuses
-Receipts
-Origin
-Success
-Benefits of a veto
-Sustaining
-Compared to Rural Environmental Assistance Program [REAP]
-Bob Cook, lobbyist
-Views on REAP
-Meeting with Richard Fairbanks, John Larsen
-Compromise

Congressional relations
-Farm bill
-Difficulties in opposing
-Comparison with veteran’s bills
-Support for President
-Conservative legislation
-Foreign policy
-Support for excessive bills for farmers and veterans
-Carl T. Curtis, Henry L. Bellmon, Herman E. Talmadge
Vetoes
-Override
-Impact on conservatives
-Parochialism of farm bill supporters
 -21-

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

Tape Subject Log
(rev. Mar.-09)
Conversation No. 870-5 (cont’d)



-Public attitudes toward farmers
-Dislike of subsidies
-Impact on North Vietnam aid
-“Smallness” of Senators
-Farm bill
-Recipients
-Supporters in Congress
-Lobbyists
-National Farmers Organization [NFD]
-Mail campaign
Administration’s letter counteroffensive
-Farm Bureau lobbying
-REAP vote
-William J. Scherle

REA
-Reorganization
-Rural Development Office
-Necessity
-Loans
-Rural Development Act
-Veto
-Significance of loss
-Discussions with Butz
-Farm bill
-Leadership
-Deal
-Interest rate

Congressional relations
-Poage
-House Public Works Committee
-Cuts to Economic Development Administration [EDA]
-Frederick B. Dent’s testimony
-Funding for Rural Development Act of 1972
-Anger at White House
-Legislation revisions
-EDA, Regional Commission legislation
 -22-

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

Tape Subject Log
(rev. Mar.-09)
Conversation No. 870-5 (cont’d)



-Vote
-William H. Harsha
-Veto override
-Compared to Agricultural Committee
-Loan programs
-Justifications
-Contradictions
-Impoverished areas
-EDA criteria
-REA
-Farm constituency
-Mood
-Cooperatives
-Interest rates [?]
-Negotiations with Nelsen and Poage
-Need for compromise
-Problems
-Administration strategy
-Agricultural Committee vote

Budget for urban programs
-Bill in Congress
-Transition funding
-Summer youth program
-Paul H. O’Neill [?]
-President’s opinion
-Problems in cities
-Federal responsibility
-Congressional continuing resolutions on Public Employment Programs [PEP]
-O’Neill [?], Weinberger
-President’s budget request
-Neighborhood youth programs
-Additional funding
-Transportation, recreation
-Funding
-PEP, neighborhood youth program
-Congressional criticism
-Urban renewal
 -23-

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

Tape Subject Log
(rev. Mar.-09)
Conversation No. 870-5 (cont’d)



-Transition funding
-Lawrence D. Cohen
-St. Paul, Minnesota
-Roman Gribbs
-O’Neill, Weinberger
-Special revenue sharing
-Education
-Guarantees to mayors
-News reports
-Need for more data
-PEP
-Neighborhood Youth Corps [NYC]
-Public statements
-Gribbs
-O’Neill
-Continuing resolution
-Budget cuts
-Press reports
-Housing
-George W. Romney
-Specific commitments
-Need for care in statements
-Need for PR campaign
-REA, REAP [?], water and sewer bill
-Visit to Cleveland
-1969 budget levels
-Way to approach cuts
-Cut backs
-Money to localities
-Mayoral expectations compared to John F. Kennedy and Lyndon B.
Johnson administrations
-Tax increases
-Impact of budget increases
-Mayors
-Worthiness of fighting on this issue
-President's program
-Reversal of trend
-Federal bureaucracy and programs
 -24-

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

Tape Subject Log
(rev. Mar.-09)
Conversation No. 870-5 (cont’d)



-Spending
-Relation to taxes
-Power of presidency
-New Federalism
-Weinberger
-Herb [Last name unknown]
-New York Times
Congressional relations
-Budget appropriations
Parochialism of Congressmen, Senators
-Conservative tendencies
-Republicans
-Liberalism about projects in home districts, states
-Vetoes
-Senate
-Ability to sustain
-President’s conversation with Hugh Scott
-Invitations to White House
-Support for President
-Trade bill
-Vietnam aid
-House
-Supporters
-Lobbying efforts
-Senate
-Lack of cooperation with President
-Irresponsibility
-Republicans
-Compared with House members
-Senators Ted Stevens, Carl T. Curtis
-1972 elections
-Electoral margin compared to President

Budget cuts
-PR campaign
-Compassion
-Tax increases
-Patrick J. Buchanan’s memo
 -25-

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

Tape Subject Log
(rev. Mar.-09)
Conversation No. 870-5 (cont’d)



-Strategy
-Denying compared to defending cuts
-Public confusion
-Increased spending
-Civil rights, food stamps, aid for aging, education
-Compassion
-Tax increases
-Presentation of simultaneous liberal and conservative image
-Attacks on policy of cuts
-Administration’s responses
-Butz
-Tax increases compared with spending
-Farmers, cities
-Categorical grants
-Urban renewal, model cities
-PR campaign
-Mistake
-Spending increases
-President’s conversation with Scott
-News stories
-Trust of President
-Vietnam example
-Common sense
-Compared to Congress, Hubert H. Humphrey, Daniel L. Schorr
-Dam example
-Community action, Headstart
-Spending and compassion
-Problems
-Focus on beneficiaries compared with increased
bureaucracy

Congressional relations
-Senate
-Edmund S. Muskie, Edward M. (“Ted”) Kennedy
-Committee hearings
-Television [TV] spectacle
-Republican opposition
-Weinberger’s experience
 -26-

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

Tape Subject Log
(rev. Mar.-09)
Conversation No. 870-5 (cont’d)



-Phoniness
-Political campaigning
-Administrations attacks on committees
-Offensive strategy
-Weinberger’s role
-Speeches, writers
-Informing public of effect of Congressional action

Budget cuts
-REAP
-PR campaign
-Objectives of administration
-Control of taxes, spending
-Employment increases
-Real wage increases
-George Meany
-Disposable income
-Farm income increases
-Congressional reactions
-Scott, Gerald R. Ford
-Budget figures
-John D. Ehrlichman's conversation with administrative assistant
-Harsha
-William E. Timmons
-Harsha
-Feedback from constituents
-Criticism
-Mail from supporters of Administration’s policies
-William J. Baroody, Jr.
-Report
-Need to counter lobbyists
-Republican Party organizations
-Negative feedback
-Department of Housing and Urban Development [HUD]
Newsclips
-Editorials
-Critique of HUD’s structure
-Surrogate advocates
 -27-

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

Tape Subject Log
(rev. Mar.-09)
Conversation No. 870-5 (cont’d)



-David N. Parker
-Schedule
-Cabinet
-Meeting schedule
-Defense, State Department, Domestic Council
-Report on supporters of cuts
-List of organizations
-Activities
-Letter writing
-National Associations of Manufacturers [NAM]
-Advertising
-Chambers of Commerce
-Value
-Letter writing
-Value
-Ehrlichman’s comment about briefing
-American Retail Federation
-William E. Timmons’s liaison office
-Memorandum
-Letters to Congress
-Compared to NAM advertisement
-Press coverage
-Fiscal policy
-Butz’s defense
-Regional press conferences
-Smaller newspapers
-Appearance by Cabinet officers [?]
-Letters to Congressmen
-Appearance by President
-Effectiveness
-Appearance by Cabinet officers
-Effectiveness
-Regional, local coverage
-TV
-Saturation
-Editorials
-Revenue sharing
-Spot newspaper coverage
 -28-

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

Tape Subject Log
(rev. Mar.-09)
Conversation No. 870-5 (cont’d)



-Springfield, Illinois
-Wire service stringers
-Associated Press [AP], United Press International
[UPI]
-Compared to national coverage
-Compared to President’s appearances
-Frequency
-Letters to Congressmen
-Wording
-John W. Dean, III’s advice
-Lobbying
-Appearances by Cabinet officers
-Domestic Council meeting
-Urban League, Vernon E. Jordan, Jr.
-Funding for urban blacks
-William P. Rogers, Elliot L. Richardson
-Attorney General
-Undersecretaries
-Invitations
-Talking points
-Effectiveness
-Effect of staff reorganization, confirmations
-Frequency
-Feedback from farmers [?]
-Planning
-Baroody’s office
-Effectiveness
-Meetings
Chamber of Commerce
-Report
-Advertisements
-Need for circular letters to Congressmen
-Congressional responsiveness


*****************************************************************
[Begin segment reviewed under deed of gift]
 -29-

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

Tape Subject Log
(rev. Mar.-09)
Conversation No. 870-5 (cont’d)



1974 election
-Control of House of Representatives
-Funding for Republican National Committee [RNC] candidates
-Butz’s conversation with George H. W. Bush, Janet Johnson
-Butz’s conversation with Anne L. Armstrong, Thomas W. Evans in 1972
-Farm districts
-Potential sear pickup
-Projects
-Cultivation of candidates
-Cabinet, agency support
-Problem
-Incumbent candidates
-Support of William E. Brock, III and Scott
-George D. Aiken
-Norris Cotton
-William B. Saxbe
-Wallace F. Bennett
-Age
-Scott
-Margaret Chase Smith
-Cotton
-Need to encourage to quit
-Age limits
-Milton R. Young
-Age
-Mark Andrews
-Message about age and need for retirement
-Need for votes
-Role of party leaders
-Democrats
-Old incumbents
-Need for young Republican opponents
-Coordination of election efforts
-Bush
-Ford, Scott
-White House role
-Butz’s comment
-Political staff
 -30-

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

Tape Subject Log
(rev. Mar.-09)
Conversation No. 870-5 (cont’d)



-Speeches
-Parker
-Scheduling
-Ability, time
-Terrance O’Donnell
-Surrogate scheduling

[End of segment reviewed under deed of gift]
*****************************************************************

Congressional relations
-Lobbying
-Spending cuts [?]
-Outside White House
-Baroody compared with Henry C. Cashen, II, Charles W. Colson
-Role of President
-Letter writing
-Outside support

President’s schedule
-Dinner
-Congressmen

Butz, et al., left at 6:00 pm.