881-012a

Conversation No. 881-12

Date: March 16, 1973
Time: 5:10 pm - 6:43 pm
Location: Oval Office

The President met with Ronald L. Ziegler.

Ziegler's meeting with Republican Club presidents of East Coast schools
-Ziegler's impression
-Watergate
-Interest in constitutional questions
-Sherman Adams case
-Charge of impropriety
-Comparison
-Administration's stand on cooperation
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NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

Tape Subject Log
(rev. July-2010)
Conversation No. 881-12 (cont’d)


-H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman
-John W. Dean, III

Watergate
-Richard G. Kleindienst's meeting with Samuel J. Ervin, Jr.
-White House cooperation
-Federal Bureau of Investigation [FBI] files
-Disclosure
-Regulations
-Administration position

Press relations
-Vietnam
-Democratic caucus resolution
-Unilateral withdrawal
-North Vietnamese infiltration
-Ziegler's meeting

Herman Kahn entered at 5:14 pm.

Introduction to Ziegler

The White House photographer entered and Ziegler left at 5:14 pm.

Photographs
-Arrangements
-President’s chair

The White House photographer left at an unknown time before 5:24 pm.

Kahn's meeting with President
-Value
-John D. Ehrlichman's reaction

An unknown person entered at an unknown time after 5:14 pm.

Refreshment

The unknown person left at an unknown time before 5:24 pm.
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NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

Tape Subject Log
(rev. July-2010)
Conversation No. 881-12 (cont’d)


Last meeting with President
-New York
-Phil Bartman [?]
-President’s political career

Hudson Institute
-Financial state
-Personnel
-Expenditures
-Research
-Contracts
-Government studies
-Defense Department, State Department, National Security Council [NSC],
Executive Office of the President [EOP]
-Institute's policies
-Private sector funding
-National Security Agency [NSA]
-National Endowment for the Humanities [NEH]
-Effectiveness of President’s speeches
-Length of research

An unknown person entered at an unknown time after 5:14 pm.

Ehrlichman
-Presence at meeting
-Foreign policy studies
-Meeting
-Earl L. Butz

The unknown person left at an unknown time before 5:24 pm.

Kahn's current project
-Study
-Resources
-Pollution
-Productivity
-Cultural attitudes
-Study of water
-Public attitudes
-Columbia Broadcasting System [CBS]
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NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

Tape Subject Log
(rev. July-2010)
Conversation No. 881-12 (cont’d)


-Energy
-Environment
-Influence of propaganda
-Iron Curtain countries, Union of Soviet Socialist Republics [USSR]
-Catholic Church in France
-Strength
-Albigensian heresy
-Control
-Czechoslovakia
-1968 reform movement
-Religion
-Jan [last name unknown]
-USSR
-Communist Party
-Rhetoric
-Unity
-Propaganda
-Student attitudes
-Variation
-Prestige universities
-Support for George S. McGovern
-Faculty attitudes
-State universities
-Non-college youth
-Political attitudes

US politics
-Book
-Public attitudes

Ehrlichman entered at 5:24 pm.

Ehrlichman's schedule
-Cost of Living Council [COLC]

Meeting with Kahn
-Ehrlichman's presence

NEH study on long term prospects for mankind
-Six phases
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NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

Tape Subject Log
(rev. July-2010)
Conversation No. 881-12 (cont’d)


-Phase one
-Use of technology
-Phase two
-Studies of food, housing
-Population
-Phase three
-Conference on food issues
-Compensation
-1976 US bicentennial
-Credit for President’s policies
-Financing
Domestic Council
-Proposal
-Necessity
-Energy problem
-Crisis
-Henry Fairlie's book about John F. Kennedy
-Attitudes of writers, scholars

Current crises
-Food prices
-Urgency
-Sense of crisis
-Vietnam War
-Watergate
-Long-range planning
-Need for caution by leaders
-Speeches
-Leader class
-Weakness

Prisoners of war [POWs]
-President's meetings
-Solitary confinement
-Strength
-Contrast with nation's leaders
-Weaknesses
-Universities
-Strength in White House
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NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

Tape Subject Log
(rev. July-2010)
Conversation No. 881-12 (cont’d)


Leaders of US
-Weaknesses
-College students
-Change in attitudes in 1960's
-Earning potential
-Lack of effort at improvement
-Compared to Europeans, Romans
-Prestigious universities
-Chart of attitudes
-Locations on chart
-American national character
-Prestigious universities
-Party affiliation
-Comparison with nation
-Comparison with middle management
-Robert F. (“Bobby”) Kennedy
-Democrats
-Minority groups
-Labor unionists
-George Meany
-Kahn's article
-Deletions of questions
-List of groups
-Changes in social groups
-Episcopalians, Congregationalists, Presbyterians
-Students
-Establishment
-1950's
-Comparison with 1960s
-Leader class
-Churches, universities, press
-Dwight D. Eisenhower
-Ethical critics
-Unitarians
-Dissident elements
-“Joy love culture”
-Bicentennial
-Intellectual content
-Use of Kahn’s research
-Role of US in world
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NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

Tape Subject Log
(rev. July-2010)
Conversation No. 881-12 (cont’d)


-Social problems
-Solutions
-Japan
-Future role
-Per capita income

Domestic problems
-Domestic Council

Upper middle class
-Dialogue
-Kahn’s US News and World Report article
-President's meeting with Newbold (“Newby”) Noyes, Jr.
-Setting up
-Terms
-President's speech in 1969
-Tone
-Editing
-Attacks
-Press reaction
-Kahn's changes
-Dialogue with New York Times
-New York Review of Books

Press relations
-Inaccuracies
-New York Times
-Washington Post
-Baltimore
-Votes for President
-Patriotism, morality
-Racism
-Editorials
-Kahn's conversation with Max Frankel and Thomas Grey (“Tom”) Wicker
-A. M. Rosenthal editorial
-Survey
-Reason for votes for President
-Racism
-Mistakes by New York Times
-Vulnerabilities
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NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

Tape Subject Log
(rev. July-2010)
Conversation No. 881-12 (cont’d)


-Potential for change
-Daniel Yankelovich's poll
-Critique of New York Times editorials
-Busing issue
-New York Times errors
-Costs of busing
-Public opposition
-Role of racism
-Neighborhood schools
-Quality of schools
-Segregation
-Contradictory policies
-Neighborhood schools

POWs
-Return
-Capt. Jeremiah A. Denton, Jr.
-Solitary confinement
-Book on US and his experience
-US at time of capture
-Audience for book
-Common people

Leader class
-Current decline
-Source of decline of civilization
-Common people
-Businessmen
-Weaknesses
-Managers
-Corruption of children
-Elite schools
-Vietnam War
-Peace
-Antiballistic missile system [ABM] system
-Opposition
-Establishment
-Churches
-Fundamentalists
-Support for President
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NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

Tape Subject Log
(rev. July-2010)
Conversation No. 881-12 (cont’d)


-Baptist
-Catholics
-South
-West
-Established churches
-Quakers
-Weaknesses
-Episcopalians
-Presbyterians
-Denton
-Supporters of President
-William F. (“Billy”) Graham
-Lack of respect as religious leader
-Educators
-College presidents, faculty
-Weaknesses
-Comparison with students
-Ivy League
-Graduate schools
-Businessmen
-Conservative orientation
-Selfishness, weakness
-Lack of courage
-Support for President
-Midwest, South, West
-Laboring classes
-President’s November 3, 1969 speech
-“Silent majority”
-Election
-Opposition to demonstrators
-Farmers
-Small businessmen
-Comparison with Wall Street
-Chamber of Commerce
-National Association of Manufacturers [NAM]
-Reason for support for President
-President’s victories

American society
-Education
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NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

Tape Subject Log
(rev. July-2010)
Conversation No. 881-12 (cont’d)


-Kahn’s book title
-“1963 to 1972: A decade of Educated Incapacity”
-[Unintelligible name]
-Trained incapacity
-Engineers, sociologists
-Influence on attitudes
-Newspapers, universities
-President’s background
-New York
-Leader class
-Shallowness
-Lack of character
-Religion
-Revival
-Decline of Christianity
-Sweden
-Germany
-France
-Italy
-Pope
-Spain
-Latin America
-Mexico
-US
-Movement toward orthodoxy
-Protestants
-Baptists
-Church of Christ
-Pentecostals
-Counter culture
-Counter counter culture
-Jews
-George C. Wallace
-Spokesman for counter counter culture
-[Unintelligible name]
-Racism
-Wallace's change in attitude
-Racism
-Racists
-Shame
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NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

Tape Subject Log
(rev. July-2010)
Conversation No. 881-12 (cont’d)


-Article in newspaper
-White workers
-Denials of racism
-Washington Post


*****************************************************************
[Begin segment reviewed under deed of gift]

-Letter from President to relative of Timberlake family
-Irish Catholicism
-Racism
-Rose Mary Woods
-Son
-Suicide
-Daughter
-Interracial marriage
-Letter
-Father’s reaction
-1973 inauguration

[End segment reviewed under deed of gift]
*****************************************************************


-Spokesman for counter counter culture
-Wallace
-President as spokesman
-Compassion
-Poor blacks
-Melvin R. Laird and Defense Department
-Concern for New York Times, Washington Post editorials

Press relations
-First term
-Press effect on others
-Good ideas from press
-White House staff
-Obsession
-Wicker
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NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

Tape Subject Log
(rev. July-2010)
Conversation No. 881-12 (cont’d)


-New York Times, Washington Post, Columbia Broadcasting System
[CBS]
-President’s lack of enemies
-President’s press coverage
-Quality
-Journalists’ disagreement with President on issues
-President’s disinterest
-Wicker
“Joy, love culture”
-James B. (“Scotty”) Reston
-Generation gap
-Commencement speech at Stanford University
-Students' reaction
-Communication with President
-Rhetoric
-Spiro T. Agnew's \"effete snobs\" comment
-Presentation of administration's case

Intellectuals
-Exposure of errors
-Support of President
-Response to changes in public opinion
-Interest in power and survival
-Decency
-Sense of mission
-New York Times
-Vietnam War
-Defeatism
-Opposition to peace and aid
-South Vietnam

South Vietnam’s successes
-President’s Vietnamization program
-President’s speech
-Kahn’s article
-Left Wing’s theory
-One year interval before North Vietnam’s victory
-Chance of victory
-South Vietnamese strength
-Kahn’s articles for Saturday Review of Literature
 -48-

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

Tape Subject Log
(rev. July-2010)
Conversation No. 881-12 (cont’d)


-North Vietnam’s settlement
-Nguyen Van Thieu's visit to US
-Peace settlement
-Successes
-December 1972 bombing
-Retention of Thieu in power
-Thieu’s weakness in 1969
-North Vietnam
-Tanks
-An Loc battle
-Historical significance
-Ancient Greece
-Press reports
-Press relations
-Deficiencies
-Cambodian operation
-Correct play
-Impact on US casualties
-Defense Department
-Successes
-Weapons capture
-Publicity
-Statistics
-Example of Customs Service's capture of heroin
-Publicity
-Talking paper

Press relations
-Approaches
-Reston
-Review of record of each reporter
-President's reasons for talking with press
-Issue of credit

Vietnam War
-France
-Mistakes
-Gen. Creighton W. Abrams
-Perception of victory
-Five major studies
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NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

Tape Subject Log
(rev. July-2010)
Conversation No. 881-12 (cont’d)


-Rural constabulary
-Sir Robert Thompson
-Marine Corps, Navy
-South Vietnamese police
-Counter intelligence
-Rotation of US personnel in Vietnam
-Village indoctrination
-US skill
-Training of US personnel
-Deficiencies
-Perceptions of wealth
-Education
-Counterinsurgency tactics
-South Korean forces
-Northern group
-Problems
-Group south of Danang
-Successes
-US Army refusal to learn from them
-Thompson’s recommendations
-Rural insurgency
-Latin America
-Successes
-Panama
-School
-UA military manuals
-France
-Kahn's talks at Pentagon and Saigon
-Criticism of generals
-Gen. William C. Westmoreland
-Abrams
-Age
-Cambodia operation
-Loss of Gen. Do Cao Tri
-Laotian operation
-Attrition
-Abrams
-Thailand
-Air support
-Abrams
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NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

Tape Subject Log
(rev. July-2010)
Conversation No. 881-12 (cont’d)


-Public relations
-Poor performance
-Saigon press conference
-Cambodia operation
-Public justification
-Laos operation
-Perception of success
-President's policies
-Successes
-Opposition
-Press
-Establishment
-Congress
-Henry A. Kissinger’s January 1973 trip to Paris
-Democratic caucus
-POWs release
-Troop withdrawal
-Time article
-J. William Fulbright
-Michael J. (“Mike”) Mansfield

USSR, People's Republic of China [PRC] initiatives
-Arms control
-Vietnam settlement
-Delay
-Complexity
-Weapons freeze
-Negotiations
-Warsaw Pact
-Negotiations
-Europe
-Mutual Balanced Force Reduction [MBFR]
-Fulbright, Mansfield, New York Times
-Unilateral reduction
-Sources of us success

Vietnam War
-May 8, 1972 decision, December 1972 bombing
-Opposition
-Intellectuals
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NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

Tape Subject Log
(rev. July-2010)
Conversation No. 881-12 (cont’d)


-Lack of support
-Cabinet
-John B. Connally
-Opposition
-1972 Moscow summit
-North Vietnam’s offensive
-Tanks
-USSR
-Hue
-1972 Moscow summit

India-Pakistan war
-PRC
-US policy
-Support for Pakistan
-India
-Support from US public
-PRC initiative
-USSR initiative
-US establishment
-Comparison with Great Britain
-Refusal to understand government position
-Kissinger

US upper middle class
-Relations with administration
-Colleges
-Harvard University
-Persuasion
-Pakistan policy
-Crime
-Commission
-Rape
-Sex in society
-Religion, morality, taste
-Pornography
-State support, availability
-Threat to family
-Sex education
-Public support
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NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

Tape Subject Log
(rev. July-2010)
Conversation No. 881-12 (cont’d)


-Reasons for support by leaders
-Pregnancy avoidance
-Sources of opposition


*****************************************************************
[Begin segment reviewed under deed of gift]

-Board of education view
-Sex as creative, joyful, fun
-Teaching of sexual techniques
-Opposition from parents

[End segment reviewed under deed of gift]
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-Dangers to American family
-Sex and values


*****************************************************************
[Begin segment reviewed under deed of gift]

-Role of mystery
-Women’s dress
-Attractiveness
-Bikini
-Slit skirt, pantaloons
-PRC
-South Vietnam

[End segment reviewed under deed of gift]
*****************************************************************


-Individual values
-Prudishness
-Marlon Brando
-Time, Newsweek covers
-Esquire, Playboy
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NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

Tape Subject Log
(rev. July-2010)
Conversation No. 881-12 (cont’d)


-Children
-Supreme Court
-Pornography
-Redeeming social value
-Last Tango in Paris
-Look
-Life editorials
-Past quality
-President’s reading as Vice President
-Changes in standards
-Modern art
-Kissinger
-Sensationalism
-Saturday Evening Post
-Pornography
-Advertising
-Readership
-Advertisers’ attitudes

Thelma C. (“Pat”) Nixon’s birthday
-President's schedule

President's policies
-National unity
-Amnesty
-Christian Science Monitor
-Divisiveness
-Communication with upper middle class
-Washington Post, New York Times
-Potential to influence
-Harvard University
-New York Review of Books
-Wicker
-Decency
-Max Frankel
-Reston
-Problem
-Background
-Snobbishness
-Wicker
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NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

Tape Subject Log
(rev. July-2010)
Conversation No. 881-12 (cont’d)


-Subjects
-Potential for persuasion
-Note from Kahn to President

Intellectuals
-Hostility to President
-Apologies
-Wicker, Reston
-Washington Post
-Joseph C. Kraft
-Alger Hiss case
-Hiss as intellectual
-Guilt
-Whittaker Chambers
-Transcript
-Confrontation in hearing room
-Alias
-Transcript
-Fund controversy [?]
-1968 election victory
-Vietnam War
-Defeatism

President’s schedule
-Mrs. Nixon’s birthday party

Kahn's note to President
-Study

Kahn's family
-Wife
-Golf
-Children
-Gifts

President's reading

Kahn and Ehrlichman left at 6:43 pm.
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NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

Tape Subject Log
(rev. July-2010)